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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 5

1000 replies

Kucinghitam · 17/05/2023 08:08

Continuation of Thread 4.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions, grr"- that sort of thing).

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 4 | Mumsnet

Continuation of [[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4728159-womens-rights-general-conversations-thread-3? Thread 3]]. There is so much excel...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4759300-womens-rights-general-conversations-thread-4?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Gonners · 13/06/2023 09:23

"Amongst our weekly dinner set (a few couples), I am the only one without a PhD"

This is properly hilarious. What is it, some sort of appeal to authority by association? I speak as the only person in this household (of two) without a PhD and I'm trying to imagine justifying my views on anything by claiming that MrG agrees.

SinnerBoy · 13/06/2023 09:23

angelico53 · Yesterday 18:30

With thanks to CD at the old place, now banned from two gender threads.

Who is CD?

And is it you, or CD who is banned?

DeanVolecapeAKAelderberry · 13/06/2023 09:35

I went over and looked, wondering would CD be centrist dad, but no.

Beautiful name derived from words of love. Can't be having that there here. Or there.

angelico53 · 13/06/2023 09:52

Cellar Door banned, not me, sinner.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 13/06/2023 10:15

I have just seen on Twitter that no-idea-of-my-chromosomes-probably-XY MP in the excellent space dress studied medicine. (Dropped out, but still.)

SinnerBoy · 13/06/2023 10:28

Thanks, angelico

StephanieSuperpowers · 13/06/2023 11:11

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 13/06/2023 10:15

I have just seen on Twitter that no-idea-of-my-chromosomes-probably-XY MP in the excellent space dress studied medicine. (Dropped out, but still.)

Christ, that's almost impossible to believe. Given the feedback she's getting on twitter, I wonder if she has the ability to feel humiliated? Imagine getting up on your hind legs to confidently assert the things she asserted without a blush. Anyone ought to be ashamed of saying such obvious, risible nonsense, but someone who studied medicine? Defies belief.

MavisMcMinty · 13/06/2023 11:22

I have just seen on Twitter that no-idea-of-my-chromosomes-probably-XY MP in the excellent space dress studied medicine. (Dropped out, but still.)

Heh, I always say I “did” 4 A-levels, but I never actually took them, left school in disgrace just before my mocks, which I definitely would have failed.

IcakethereforeIam · 13/06/2023 11:28

Someone on twitter described the dress as a 'gender galaxy'. Incidentally, what was the blue on the back of it, it looked like static had stuck a nylon card to her his arse.

duc748 · 13/06/2023 12:08

I always assumed CD was a sock (after all, no 'new' posters there surely?), but I don't know who. Their posts seemed fair enough, but I can't access the site now anyway.

Kucinghitam · 13/06/2023 12:46

Those of us who've had the misfortune of teaching medical students (or working with clinician researchers) can attest that being admitted to a medicine degree is not in itself a marker of competent thinking.

OP posts:
ScrollingLeaves · 13/06/2023 16:03

For anyone else like me who heard
RMW ( transwoman barrister) on Politics Live yesterday saying they were “somatically a woman”, this is what somatic means.

Somehow from “psychosomatically” I had wrongly thought it might mean that through RMW’s state of mind or feelings they were the equivalent of a woman, but now I see that is not the case as ‘somatically’ it means ‘related to the body’.

So I presume RMW means they are a woman because they had surgery.

To be fair though, this remark by RMW may have been in response to Maya having pointed out the large proportion of transwomen who have not had surgery.

somatic
/səˈmatɪk/

^adjective^

  1. *relating to the body, especially as distinct from the mind^.
  2. "patients completed a questionnaire about their somatic and psychological symptoms"
  • BIOLOGY
  • relating to the soma.
StephanieSuperpowers · 13/06/2023 16:09

Which is funny, since they are normally arguing the opposite - that their mental lady state confers lady states on their male bodies.

Tricyrtis2022 · 13/06/2023 16:20

Just come across the Abilene paradox, which sounds a lot like what's been happening for the last several years. This scenario was used to illustrate the paradox.

On a hot afternoon visiting in Coleman, Texas, the family is comfortably playing dominoes on a porch, until the father-in-law suggests that they take a [50-mile (80-km)] trip to Abilene for dinner. The wife says, "Sounds like a great idea." The husband, despite having reservations because the drive is long and hot, thinks that his preferences must be out-of-step with the group and says, "Sounds good to me. I just hope your mother wants to go." The mother-in-law then says, "Of course I want to go. I haven't been to Abilene in a long time."

The drive is hot, dusty, and long. When they arrive at the cafeteria, the food is as bad as the drive. They arrive back home four hours later, exhausted.

One of them dishonestly says, "It was a great trip, wasn't it?" The mother-in-law says that, actually, she would rather have stayed home, but went along since the other three were so enthusiastic. The husband says, "I wasn't delighted to be doing what we were doing. I only went to satisfy the rest of you." The wife says, "I just went along to keep you happy. I would have had to be crazy to want to go out in the heat like that." The father-in-law then says that he only suggested it because he thought the others might be bored.

The group sits back, perplexed that they together decided to take a trip that none of them wanted. They each would have preferred to sit comfortably but did not admit to it when they still had time to enjoy the afternoon.

Sound familiar?

Abilene paradox - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abilene_paradox

Kucinghitam · 13/06/2023 16:29

@Tricyrtis2022 Hah yes indeed, it's very similar to Preference Falsification, I think?

OP posts:
StephanieSuperpowers · 13/06/2023 16:33

And it ties into a poll I saw on twitter today about "How do we let people back out of their pro-gender, pro-puberty blocker positions?". Many people are talking about how to treat those who genuinely thought they were being kind and doing the right thing, even if they didn't really understand it.

duc748 · 13/06/2023 16:38

I wondered what “somatically a woman” meant too, so thanks for the enlightenment. Although, as Steph says, it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

Gonners · 13/06/2023 16:42

I'm a bit disappointed in the meaning of "somatically" because in my tiny mind I'd associated it with Brave New World and assumed it meant off your face on mind-numbing drugs.

SinnerBoy · 13/06/2023 16:44

I was going to make a similar comment, Gonners! It would certainly explain a great deal.

Tricyrtis2022 · 13/06/2023 16:55

I saw that too, Stephanie, most people had voted to laugh at TRAs rather than shout at them.

StephanieSuperpowers · 13/06/2023 16:58

Well, certainly when someone tells me that we were right for the wrong reasons (being horrible bigots) and they were wrong for the right reasons (being compassionate and kind), I will reserve the right to react however I feel in that moment!

funnelfan · 13/06/2023 18:29

There does need to be a route out for those on the “be kind” side who have painted themselves into a corner. However much we may want to ask them wtf they had been thinking, we will have to take a breath and be glad they have finally reconsidered.

no doubt there will be a serious amount of reverse ferreting in years to come, which will be hard to live with but I suppose we’ll have to grit our teeth to keep the peace (we’re women, we’ve had a lot of practice) for the bigger picture.

MmePoppySeedDefage · 15/06/2023 06:27

The sped and outcome of this is cheering

Ryanair chief pilot sacked for ‘grooming cadets’.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b217bbce-0aed-11ee-947c-69265173b330?shareToken=1ab6d9d7153f5f917f8fa49d25f598a88_

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