Women's rights general conversations - Thread 5

[Kucinghitam]

Continuation of Thread 4.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions, grr"- that sort of thing).

US congressional hearing discusses the balance of evidence for puberty blockers:

https://twitter.com/HeadWarriorTWM/status/1669231851146182656?s=20

"You're just saying words." 😂

This this very clear and coherent follow up: twitter.com/JeremyShawMD/status/1669109860091281408?s=20

Not just words.

@BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn Ah, but TRSOHers will (now) say that they were always aware of the ineffectiveness and irreversibility of puberty blockers, and were always the ones clamouring for more evidence and reliable data-gathering. Y'know, just like how they're (now) saying that of course they've always said sex isn't a spectrum, that sex ≠ gender, that they know humans can't change sex, that they never said "born in the wrong body."

TRSOH is a veritable ballroom of boogieing goalposts; the only constant is that They're the Good People no matter what they do or say.

Miriam Grossman, a voice of reason:

Miriam Grossman is such an example of what we all know, that real experts, real intellectuals, real giants, don't need to use obfuscatory language to bamboozle listeners. Cuts straight through the stinky stuff.

Dr Grossman went to Canada to speak for Nurse Amy Hamm, along with Doc Stock. I think the nursing board prosecuting(?) Amy Hamm has refused to accept Dr Grossman's testimony.

Dr McNamara looking very uncomfortable sitting through that.

It's funny, the woman beside McNamara is making the same faces as I imagine the right side of history make when they see our posts. Childish, petulant, playing to an audience, ignoring the substance of what is being said.

Ah, both those clips were great, gave me sustenance. “You’re just saying words” is one I’ve stashed away to use myself. It has “Sue, you’re shouting at tea” vibes.

TRSOHers
Who or what is this please?

The Right Side Of History.

Oh my, how embarrassing, she had absolutely nothing to say. I take it she's Dr McNamara?

Yes, Dr McNamara is an Assistant Professor of Pediatrics at Yale School of Medicine. What a shame, it's so frustrating to see highly educated women promoting this ideology and it's anti-science views.

Thank goodness for Dr Grossman though, her speech was excellent.

duc748 · Today 12:51
Thank you duc I should have worked out it means The Right Side Of History.

MissPollysFitDolly · Today 12:55

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · Today 11:14

US congressional hearing discusses the balance of evidence for puberty blockers:

https://twitter.com/HeadWarriorTWM/status/1669231851146182656?s=20

"You're just saying words." 😂

Oh my, how embarrassing, she had absolutely nothing to say. I take it she's Dr McNamara?

The person who was “Just saying words”, who could not name a single study proving that puberty blockers and hormones are beneficial for minors, is an Assistant Professor of Pediatric medicine specialising in Adolescents at Yale no less!
https://medicine.yale.edu/profile/meredithe-mcnamara/

I found this on twitter. I think it deserves to be read. I don't think I know anything about the author other than what's in the tweet.

https://twitter.com/AraquelBloss/status/1669190188742897670?s=20

Wow, well said that woman! That got her another follower.

Self identified. They're on the right side of history in the same sense that Isla Bryson is a woman.

It may be worth a note that assistant professor in the US is roughly equivalent to lecturer in the UK. Educated enough to know better, certainly, but not as eminent as it sounds to people more used to the UK job titles.

https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1669385342342791186

Never forget: it's far too unsafe for trans women to use men's bathrooms/changing rooms, because they might get assaulted.

However, it's completely fine for any man who identifies as a woman to use women's bathrooms/changing rooms, because rapists will rape women anyway.

Another key characteristic of rapists is that they are opportunists: given easy access to their victims, they will jump at the chance. Nowadays their options have never been wider.

I've followed her too. But, and it's far from just her. I keep hearing/reading how complicit the left is in all of this and I think that's unfair. Yes, the right is pretty much universally against gender ideology but for many of them it's for the "wrong reasons". There's no real respect for women, just disdain for trans people, sometimes hatred too. Women are seen as lesser but are convenient "allies" for the right to be reduced to incubators when the battle is, hopefully, won. We know that. They want to keep men out of our toilets but they also want to keep bodily autonomy away from us too. Also worth acknowledging that for some on the right, the deeply religious fundamentalists, they'd rather a trans child than a gay one. Trans ideology as gay conversion therapy.

The left is definitely the visible, progressive supporter of gender ideology but I would argue that the numbers are split pretty equally between gender ideology and gender critical, maybe even a larger number on the gender critical side. In short, there's no left wing consensus. As for left wing misogyny, it's always been there. Men, whatever way their politics lean tend toward misogyny. Misogyny is akin to racism in terms of being hardwired into our societies. As a white person I have to be aware of my internalised racism and work against it. Men have to do both that, the white ones, and do the same work against misogyny.

In short, and I'm sorry that this is a bit tl;dr, we need to restrain from seeing the left as some sort of homogeneous whole and recognise that some of the best, most thoughtful gender critical work is coming from the left. There are definitely many good people on the right but there are also many uneasy bedfellows who are coming from a position of hate.

Well said, @MouseMinge.

(Of course it would also be helpful if the self-identified Good People of the Left would refrain from tarring anybody who doesn't worship at the altar of Genderism as Far-Right Nazi-Adjacents).

Wouldn't it just, @Kucinghitam !

Does anyone else feel that the left is in some awe/fear of Queer Theory? Very few people anywhere challenge it. I wonder why? Is it because they haven't tried to understand it, but believe it's all good because - well, why? Because others do? Because Judith B uses so many sentences where a word would do and so many pages when a pargraph would suffice? Does the left really understand and agree with Queer Theory? Do lefties even know where the trans stuff comes from?

I'm thinking of a prominent poster in another place who consistently declined to address it and preferred to refer to Gender Trouble as required reading. And honestly, it's not exactly an intellectual tour de force. I reckon you could prob precis iin a few pages, though that's not something I'm ever likely to do.

The point is, that the left seems to accept the authority of gender studies department staff and the pious nods around them, the joyless fuckwits. It's just so fucking lazy.

Being honest, I'm very disappointed in some of the people of the left over this (and they've expressed disappointment in me, so I get that it can go both ways). But I did expect better - more curiosity, more care for safeguarding as a fundamental consideration, more interest in the consequences for women, more independence, more measured discussion, fewer knee jerk reactions, fewer group chants, fewer violent threats.

I don't know if the chasm between me and the left as it now is will ever be overcome.