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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Video of Starbucks employee in UK branch

1000 replies

FisherthemsFriend · 08/05/2023 11:11

https://twitter.com/RupertMyers/status/1655477645184835586

It’s not clear what the customer said, it’s presumed she misgenders the employee as he calls her transphobic. He calls her Karen and then either grabs the phone or the person who’s filming.

https://twitter.com/RupertMyers/status/1655477645184835586

OP posts:
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49
EsmaCannonball · 08/05/2023 16:14

Are we meant to assume that men with pony-tails aren't really men now? Doesn't exactly feel like progress.

ArcaneWireless · 08/05/2023 16:15

You want to be a woman?
You want female pronouns?
You want everyone to treat you like a woman?

So why act like an angry wee man?

EsmaCannonball · 08/05/2023 16:20

Given how irate most of them get about not being able to use the ladies' bogs, Angry Wee Men is a pretty good name for them.

Nearamir · 08/05/2023 16:20

ArcaneWireless · 08/05/2023 16:15

You want to be a woman?
You want female pronouns?
You want everyone to treat you like a woman?

So why act like an angry wee man?

I’ve seen women behave as violently and aggressively as this, so not sure that’s what makes him less female. The thing that makes him less female is, you know, the fact that he’s a man.

OldGardinia · 08/05/2023 16:26

SerendipityJane · 08/05/2023 15:55

It reminds me of a quote from Robert E. Howard's Conan novels where Conan says something along the lines of: "The civilized man is ruder than the barbarian. Because the barbarian knows his rudeness might lead to his skull being split."

An armed society is a polite society ?

That one is from Heinlein, iirc. But the gist is the same: a society where there are consequences for being rude, people are less rude.

The West used to have what has been termed an "honour based" society. Duels fought, phrases like "dem dare's fightin' words" and real Montagues and Capulets stuff. Without a pervasive authority to reliably settle disputes, people settled them between themselves. Then with a common authority, those things stop and people appeal to that authority for justice. And that works or doesn't work depending on the circumstances and the people but it does more or less settle things down. Then after a couple of generations of people growing up in such a society, everything becomes about appealing to authority and casting yourself as a victim the ultimate tactic. It would be nice if somehow we could get to the middle phase and just stay there.

I've been getting increasingly worried about what comes next. There's the meme I used to see online of: "And then for no reason at all, Hitler was elected to power." It's said after you see some disorder or abuse being condoned by authority or things like that UNESCO report that appears to be stating that children can consent to sex with adults. Basically equating our society to the way the Weimar republic went with child prostitution, economic recklessness, et al.

We're still, I hope, a long way from that. But one real depression and combine that with a collapse in social fabric and it's not like it can only happen in Germany and only in the past. Most people are followers. Eventually, if their leaders endlessly fail them, people shrug and say "okay, your turn." And I'm not talking about Labour vs. Conservatives. I'm talking about Liberal vs. Fascist.

It probably wont go that far (I hope), but I think there's a very real possibility that the trans movement is going to result in a significant social push back on gay and lesbian people and rights. I say "going to," but frankly I might better say "already is".

I'm not even wholly convinced gay male and lesbian have a 100% natural basis to be lumped together given the wildly different sexual patterns of men vs. women (in general), but I'm quite firm in my belief that LGB and TQ are not and that the latter is causing a lot of damage to the former.

ArcaneWireless · 08/05/2023 16:26

Fair point nearamir

OldGardinia · 08/05/2023 16:27

@Nearamir Good post.

Never lose sight of the basics!

LarkLane · 08/05/2023 16:28

I wonder if the police will be right round to arrest for assault?
Probably not... it only seems to work one way.

river2 · 08/05/2023 16:30

were they cross because she called him a he and he's non binary or a she/her (despite looking and sounding like a he)

OrbandSpectacle · 08/05/2023 16:52

AlisonDonut · 08/05/2023 16:10

Chortle.

I fucking love mumsnet

LOL 😆

Deadringer · 08/05/2023 17:02

Tell me you are a man without telling me you are a man.

Kendodd · 08/05/2023 17:04

LarkLane · 08/05/2023 16:28

I wonder if the police will be right round to arrest for assault?
Probably not... it only seems to work one way.

They might need to have words with the women though about committing a hate crime.

QuintanaRoo · 08/05/2023 17:04

EsmaCannonball · 08/05/2023 16:14

Are we meant to assume that men with pony-tails aren't really men now? Doesn't exactly feel like progress.

Exactly. I know a few men with ponytails who would be up in arms if someone referred to them as “she”. Apart from they wouldn’t be rude and aggressive about it and would probably just mutter away to themselves because they’re nice people.

There was recently a large event at a well known tourist attraction near me and afterwards a visitor emailed in to complain that they had been misgendered by three different members of staff/volunteers on separate occasions within a few hours. All staff wear name badges and names of the offenders were in the email.

They’ve all been spoken to and are genuinely sorry for their “transgressions” 🧐. You know they’re all of a certain age and very much of the opinion if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck they’re going to assume it’s a duck. Trans is not really on their radar. I didn’t meet the individual concerned but my gut feeling is if three different people assume you’re a man……you’re probably not doing a great job of passing as a woman.

anyway I’m sure training will be put on and in the meantime one much needed volunteer is thinking of leaving as they’re so upset.

Nanaof1 · 08/05/2023 17:08

NicCageisnotNickCave · 08/05/2023 14:54

I like Dominic’s review:

I think I've gone and missed reading some threads, as I don't know where to go to read reviews. Would someone, please, be able to point me in the right direction?

rumpsteak · 08/05/2023 17:11

Helleofabore · 08/05/2023 13:27

I have listened a few times and I have not found that. But ok. I am happy to be wrong

It's there clear as day.

LarkLane · 08/05/2023 17:12

Kendodd · 08/05/2023 17:04

They might need to have words with the women though about committing a hate crime.

Well indeed Doddy - but only those in possession of the correct chromosomes, as we all know.

Helleofabore · 08/05/2023 17:16

rumpsteak · 08/05/2023 17:11

It's there clear as day.

Yes. It is. I agree.

fibag29 · 08/05/2023 17:23

The reviews have been removed.
Most recent is from a week ago.
Suppose there's always Facebook!!

Pluvia · 08/05/2023 17:26

WeAreTheHeroes · 08/05/2023 16:09

I wasn't there so don't know, but I suspect the woman customer has complained about or maybe even just referred to the trans person to their colleague. The reaction is off the scale if it was a simple reference to them. This person does themselves no favours by being so aggressive, using a misogynistic term and then being violent.

What gets me about the whole TRA thing is that some transwomen seem to be so threatened by women they behave so openly misogynistically towards them.

Time to reclaim Karen too and stop it's use as a term of abuse.

What evidence do you have that the customer complained?

Here on Sex and Gender we try to be evidenced based and not rely on hunches.

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 08/05/2023 17:26

Yep, reviews have gone. And the star rating had gone down to 3.1 as of about an hour ago, and is now back up at 3.7 (though this is still lower than it was earlier this afternoon).

Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/05/2023 17:27

Interested in the response of his co-worker who stood well back and didn't get involved. Can't help feeling that if I liked my co-worker I'd have tried to calm things down

Let's not assume they're any more rational when interacting with colleagues

If the co-worker's got any sense they'll be out of there at the speed of light, but then TBH I'm not sure why anyone would want to work there anyway

Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/05/2023 17:28

Yep, reviews have gone

So will the thread in all likelihood; companies tend not to appreciate bad publicity and I fully expect this one to be onto MNHQ as we write

Arniesleftleg · 08/05/2023 17:33

The employee was being more of a 'Karen' imho. He/she/them/they should be sacked but then they would probably claim they are being dismissed for their diversity.

Emotionalsupportviper · 08/05/2023 17:34

slowquickstep · 08/05/2023 12:20

And what does Starbucks have to say on this matter ? Every woman should boycott the brand until this employee is sacked.

There online page is down.

I wonder if there has been a biteback?

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