Time to dust off your Labour Party membership and support LWD

[Forwarder]

The only mainstream party that currently acknowledges biological reality took a bit of a pounding yesterday (results so far). Spoiled ballot papers ain't going to cut it. From these results we might get a Labour Libdem coalition next time, if not outright Labour majority.

Either way, that means full steam ahead for Self ID.

If you are still a member of the Labour Party, Labour Women's Declaration is trying to get GC candidates on the National Women's Committee and push back at the MRAs who run the party. The nominations go in this month and next. LWD running an advice session soon.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65475817

I’d be more specific and say Gender Identity idealist/politics/whatever wherever you can.

The word gender on its own, is still deliberately used in a fudgy way to mean lots of different things so so probably best to avoid it ourselves where possible. It’s the tying or foisting of sex stereotypes (gender) to a core sense of political identity that’s specifically troubling here so keeping the word ‘identity’ closed linked to gender seems important.

Plus the foundational point that ‘gender identity’ is also a cover for a men’s sexual rights and access to women and children campaign.. and that for men who are seeking that access for abusive goals, the ‘identity’ cover gives them a golden ticket regardless of how those men perceive their own identity. This a gift to any man keen to dismantle safeguarding and get himself into the women’s toilets..

I will also be using the accurate phrase ‘Data Corruption’ taken from this excellent speech by Tonia Antoniazzi, the Labour MP for Gower, reported by James Kirkup:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/mps-are-finally-engaging-with-the-gender-identity-debate/

HT IwanttoRetire for flagging up that article, and who has also a started an important thread about (an opportunity to contact MPs ahead of) a key debate in Parliament on 12 June. Very helpful to have notice of it in time to keep pressing MPs of all parties for a position on this: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4800027-debate-relating-to-the-definition-of-sex-in-the-equality-act-2010-will-be-in-westminster-hall-on-12-june-2023-430pm?reply=125989601

I meant to write ideology not ‘idealist’ sorry

So, with what 12-18 months max, women are now going to have to expend some serious mental energy and social capital in turning around this leftist freighter that is heading slowly in one direction only? I hope you all have unlimited supply of very strong coffee, wine etc.

Even now respondents here are frayed on what language to use.

Mention trans. Or not.
Mention gender. Or not.
Mention ideology. Or not.
Mention child safeguarding. Or not.
Mention women's safety. Or not.

I mean, how surreal can you get? Unfortunately, the majority of left activists, Lab LDs Grns SNP PldCymru, and most of their MPs incl those on front benches, are fully active TRA minded.

And we're viewed at best as irrelevant, and at worst as sexual racists.

My conclusion is that the ONLY way for the worst case scenario to be avoided is for Starmer to get a big majority, where he'll have elbow room to resist the urges of the TWAWs in his party and the batshittery of the smaller left parties.

If it's a small majority, or he tries a minority Labour administration or a coalition, I believe he'll melt like a chocolate fireguard.

At that point the back up plan is that this all collapses while a principled politician on this policy like Kemi Badenoch leads the Tories and is ready to head a small Tory majority after snap GE in 2025.

I feel strongly but very despondent

Starmer doesn’t want it discussed, voters don’t really care

I’m not going to join the Labour party to try to convince them women are not dinosaurs

It’s such an abhorrent view I won’t forget or forgive it

People can vote as they wish but if the world looks even more like NZ under Labour in five to ten years time then they voted for it. Not much anyone can do about that. Our poor dc inheriting this, indoctrinated even

As for Labour majority being a better bet why do pp think this?

Looking at Labour in Scotland reaction to bill and Labour in Wales I’m not seeing opposition to gender ideology. The reverse in fact

If you are pro Labour you might see them as better but is it just wishful thinking?

I'm not quite as despondent as some of you but maybe that's because I'm not in the Labour Party and have no intention of returning.

I actually think 12-18 months offers a decent amount of time, not to turn everything around but to scupper some of the most damaging stuff. If this were a football match there could still be around 20-30 minutes left to play.

Starmer has got to be forced to talk about this. In public. I don't care how much it makes him squirm. But I think the 'What is a woman?' question is getting tired and needs some new approaches.

I do think this year is crucial - that's one flaw with KJK standing against him, by then it could be too late to get people's attention.

I’d hedge bets by having a conversation with all parties because they are all under the gender identity spell. All parties will need help to reverse ferret without too much loss of face. Like many of our own friends, family and colleagues will also do.

I’d start by highlighting that the emotive appeals to kindness and inclusivity just aren’t congruent with the reality for women just wanting to be safe, or to be included in public life, the basic acceptable minimums.
And we only need point to what has already actually happened: prisons, sports, silencing, arrest, harassment, threats, job losses.

And then pointing to the inappropriateness of anyone lobbying for what amounts to medical risk of harm for children and young people with no conclusively proven benefit, but with several known serious harms: time to hear directly from detransitiomed people, medical professionals like CAN-SG and parents’ groups to speak to this directly- see this thread by Igneococcus and article)

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4801070-medical-evidence-over-trans-ideology-welcome-to-the-doctors-resistance?reply=125992933

There aren’t going to be convincing TRA answers to these points because they relate to facts that have actually happened recently in the UK. Which inevitably will reflect the reality of what we know are immutable sex differences.

Sunny, it's not just this. There is apathy on Brexit, the legacy of the pandemic, multitude of migration issues, the issues with the boy scuffing the Koran and Batley teacher still under death threat.

I truly believe that social media and the internet has been so destabilising to our collective mental health and ability to concentrate on things, society has become ever more regulated and bureaucratised, mantras on so-called hateful attitudes have been universally accepted (-phobic THIS and -phobic THAT have infected day to day discourse), that even brutal newstories like toddlers being abused by parents in plain sight of authorities doesn't even make front page news anymore.

Baby P today would barely make tomorrow's fish and chips wrapper, whereas it was headline news for ages just a decade ago.

And so we have gender ideology, an area of thinking with less validity than superstition, that is thrust upon us as if it's settled science, with unknown ramifications beyond the awful ones coming to light, and a CONSERVEative party that can't conserve settled science and the settled rights of females, and a Labour Party that is first to shout about female rights at threat (abortion, MVAW), yet is the most enthusiastic to ditch them here.

And a population that when asked in polls views our trans concerns as less important than schools policy on paperclips use.

Thank you
It's important to speak in a way that doesn't alienate well meaning undecideds

Labour members and voters are not all committed to gender ideology. It's just that the dissenters are keeping a low profile.

And well nigh impossible to get selected now if you don't declare public loyalty to the one true faith.

But if the dissenters within the party can organise and network, the aim of LWD, then it is not such a settled matter.

It's not only transology that is a headache for Kier Starmer. There are other policies where his activists are at odds with any hope of getting elected.

We saw last summer from the Truss fiasco that the Tories have their own issues with crackpot membership.

We joined the Greens for a while so we could have a vote from women.
But it was incredibly depressing and we left. Feel like we should have stayed but to be honest some of the Green Head Girl women in the group were difficult to deal with.
Back to Labour I suppose .

@Slothtoes thank you

Agreed. KS and other Labour front benchers need to be pressed for opinion on specific UK examples. Until their support for self id is publicly dismantled bit by bit. Get someone like Henrietta Freeman in the audience asking awkward questions on QT etc

Wes Streeting was just interviewed by Laura Kunnesberg. As soft ball as anything, Labours trans policy didn't get a look in.

I disagree.

There will always be some genderists in any population. It is not a political issue. I think it is worth noting that:

1. in Scotland the Tories did not have a whip and a couple voted to support Sturgeon's legislation. Fine. Most opposed. Jamie Wallis can do whatever Jamie-self wants. He is in a minority.
2. Penny Mordaunt is extremely ambitious. She is back on the rubber chicken campaign trail positioning herself to be next in line should Rishi mis-step. I think both she and Rishi learnt during the last leadership election that women are concerned about this issue, and that they need women's support. Hence Rishi coming out openly in support of women's rights, and Penny trying to backtrack rapidly from her previous position. There are too many in the current cabinet and around who first recognise biological reality and/or see the current position as a vote winner.
3. Over the next 18 months Keir will face pressure from the Tory position and opposite pressure from his militants. If "what is a woman" remains a gotcha question, journalists will seize on it. If he remains on the fence, he will lose votes. I think the Labour approach after the election will be clarified before.

(Sorry my internet went down after I had typed this, so some of this post is a bit behind the conversation.)

Labour Women's Declaration has cranked up its Twitter feed. One of their two internal candidates is Dr Louise Irvine who I discover chairs CAN SG the gender skeptical support group for physicians.

If you are still a Labour Party member now is a good time to message your local Women's Officer to ask about nominations to the national women's committee and conference.

Laura K won't ask a Q like that and get branded transphobe. That glorious question posed to the NZ PM Chris Pitkin was asked by a YouTube journalist. Not someone from mainstream NZ media.

[Urgh, can't believe I have become one of those people who derides 'MSM']

@Needmoresleep this should absolutely be a free vote. What on earth was Anas Sarwar thinking to whip it? Apparently two women Labour MSPS defied him. But when I went to look back at wikipedia about this the info had been erased! Or maybe I imagined it...

I know, I just love the way she touts herself "hey you at home, pull up a chair, kick back as I ask the really difficult Q's" blah blah.

Um, no.

If I had my way, I'd bring Sir Robin Day back from the other side, revisit Paxman at his Michael Joseph MP roasting best, and let them ask the Qs. Y'know, those Q's.

While I'm at it, get Chris Hitchens in on the act too, lol.

Laura was like a little lamb lost tentatively prodding Hipkins on the Posie debacle, before lobbing him Hello! style teasers on his sausage rolls addiction.

I mean, puh-lease!

They aren't at all secretive about being pleased, believe me.

I was a Labour member and did leafleting etc for elections. Unless some enormous and convincing change happens in the Labour camp, I'm voting Tory at the next GE. I'll probably throw up as soon as I leave the polling station, but I'm voting Tory anyway.

No one has mentioned, at least not prior to the post I am replying to, that the Greens of "non-men" infamy have doubled their number of council seats. That's worrying.

voters don’t really care

I don't understand why people keep saying this. Self ID just brought down Nicola Sturgeon and prevented Penny Mordaunt from winning the Tory leadership. Incredibly, Scots supported a Tory PM intervening in Scottish politics, to stop the GRR bill. Anyone who knows anything about Scottish politics will understand what an enormous deal that is. What more proof do you need that voters do care?

That isn't to say that most voters will base their vote on this issue alone, but that doesn't mean they are indifferent.

Polls show that the public support trans people being able to enjoy the same rights as everyone else. They do not show support for self-ID. Even amongst the younger age groups, those opposed plus Don't Knows outweigh those who are pro self-ID. And that's after years of media silencing of GC views and of relentless TRA propaganda on mainstream and social media. It's actually amazing how many people remain sceptical, and that number will grow as the harms become better known.

They have crashed and burned in Brighton though - voters kicked out the worst misogynists. This thread is highly enjoyable.

Highly enjoyable is an understatement. Great read.

Self ID did not bring down Nicola Sturgeon, even though it is a nice fantasy to have.

She ran away as quickly as she could once it became obvious that the extremely dodging dealins of the SNP were going to become public.

It may be that on FWR self ID and women's sex based rights are a priority, but I am afraid that for the vast majoriy of voters it doesn't even register as an issue.

If you go by vox box quotes most people are either bored by politics, or say things like its time we had a change.

And as there is now a lot weight being put on the fact that it was tactical voting that meant the Tories lost so many votes, this makes it even harder to have a discussion about an issue being the primary focus of how to vote.

Unless Starmer does something really silly he will probably win because the Tories are going to lose. And many Tories dont mind as it will give them the excuse they need to get rid of Sunak. https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/david-starkey-condemned-for-vile-and-racist-remarks-about-rishi-sunak/ar-AA1aKpni

They dont care that he has been plodding along trying to do the actual work of being PM (a bit like Theresa May) as what they want is some posh white bloke spotting little englander reactionary nonsense.

So it isn't that as the anarchist like to say "whoever you vote for the government gets in" but that the electorate gets the government it deserves.

And sadly I think this is true.