Time to dust off your Labour Party membership and support LWD

[Forwarder]

The only mainstream party that currently acknowledges biological reality took a bit of a pounding yesterday (results so far). Spoiled ballot papers ain't going to cut it. From these results we might get a Labour Libdem coalition next time, if not outright Labour majority.

Either way, that means full steam ahead for Self ID.

If you are still a member of the Labour Party, Labour Women's Declaration is trying to get GC candidates on the National Women's Committee and push back at the MRAs who run the party. The nominations go in this month and next. LWD running an advice session soon.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65475817

Oh I might still lend Labour my vote in the general election, if only because I fear a hung parliament / coalition more than I do an overall majority. And I still think they can be persuaded to avoid self ID. But rejoin and spend time and energy working for deeper change from the inside? Sorry but I think that's futile.

And because I think it's futile, I'd consider pretty much any alternative to have more chance in the long run, be it more sophisticated cross party working between women, a single issue party, direct action or better still, a combination of all 3. Now you can critique any one of those all you like and I'd probably agree with much of it, but I still think they're more likely to be effective than trying to change Labour from within. That's how hopeless I think it is. They're a feed-the-men-first party and I think they always will be.

I agree Royal Corgi.

Based on today's results Labour will probably get into power as a majority or in coalition.

Saying there's no hope, spoiling ballots etc is capitulation. The genderborg has spent years infiltrating every aspect of public life. It is time to push back, calm and persistent.

I suppose all you can do is point out that it's not one marginalised group. That there are different factions under the trans umbrella. For me the people most harmed have been the thousands of girls and women who have messed with their bodies and now regret. There are boys in that category too, but fewer in number.

And once you remove all checks to the process any creep can abuse it. Karen White, Isla Bryson etc.

Depending on the situation, if you feel brave you might raise the AGP issue.

I say this like I'm some brave battleaxe squaring up to growling old Labour hard guys. I haven't managed that yet!

Well, provided the Labour Party doesn't freeze/throw you out as soon as you mention the subject.

Ermm what I said was that I didn't think there was any hope of changing Labour from the inside. Short term, pragmatic action, including still entertaining the thought of voting for them in 2024 - yes I will listen to that. And as I have said, I have a lot of time for the LWD and wish them all the best. But rejoining and all it entails? That, I consider a waste of my time and energy, which I could use to other ends. I don't appreciate that being framed as capitulation.

No. I think he's a cowardly mealy mouthed fucker who can't even pretend to care about women convincingly.
This

Men DO care about this stuff but are too scared to speak out.... I had a chat with two guys at work yesterday - both soft-left politically, both horrified at what's happening (one raised the Nike bra issue and the other the recent cycling fiasco).

Don't forget that in the minds of woke SJWs we have even more "privilege" than cis-gendered (hateful phrase) women.

But a lot of people (women as well as men) are still not aware of what's going on. If this is going to change it will need a LOT of publicity along the lines of what happened in Scotland recently.

First of all there is absolutely no conclusions to be drawn from the local elections results, particularly at the moment in time of the OP as so few results were in.

The turn out was said to be extremely low.

And Labour far from smashing through in the results so far, has not done so well as proportionately the Lib Dems have done.

What is so dispiriting is allowing the media to whip us up into a frenzy to talk about this as though this is a general election vote. Most people vote on local issues, eg trees in Plymouth.

And allowing the media to hyperventilate because they aren't actually interested in news but in drama means that those voting locally dont get their concerns aired ie how many local councils of any party have cut funding to women's refuges.

The worse thing about politics in this country is the purile "news" coverage, but worse still is letting the comlete drivel of reporters contaminate our minds.

Even if Labour get this tiny boost now, in the intervening period between now and then actual national political issues will make a difference.

For those of us on FWR presumably the outcome of the House of Commons debate (actually a few MPs in a small committee room) discussing changing or not changing the EA will be important.

Also coming up is the fact that the Tories have confirmed they will go ahead with the legal challenge to Scotland's GRR. the outcome of this will be hugely significant because if the win it has implications for proposals in NI and Wales, but if they lose terrible implications that English law will be bought into line with self ID changes in NI and Wales.

But the big problem, and in fact it might have been better that more people had resigned from Labour rather than wasting hours hitting their heads against a brick wall, is that who is going to believe anything that Starmer says.

Loads of us probably want to vote the Tories out for all sorts of social and financial politics, but in fact letting Labour think they can just slide in on an anti Tory vote or apathy doesn't mean they are fit to govern.

But the big problem, and in fact it might have been better that more people had resigned from Labour rather than wasting hours hitting their heads against a brick wall, is that who is going to believe anything that Starmer says.

(sorry left out this point) At least from the outside saying prove to us that you are reliable and have actual principles and we will rejoin.

I feel so torn about this.

I'm an ex-Labour member, I was in the party for ages. On the one hand I think it's highly unlikely that the party can be changed from the inside. The party machinery seems totally captured, and all the young activists and political advisors who call the shots insist TWAW and all that goes with that. Starmer seems determinedly on the fence: he's sounding better than he did, but in no way strong enough to face down the extremists in his party.

On the other hand, I keep thinking well, what happens if all the decent women leave Labour, and then there's a Labour government? Like it or not, our issue isn't a defining one for most people. The constituencies with the highest proportions of signatories for the Sex Matters petition reached about 5% of voters signing, but most constituencies were 2% or less. I don't think it's going to stop Labour winning the next general election. If everyone who cares about women's rights leaves the next party of government, we're in trouble.

So, unbelievably, having said I wouldn't consider returning until I could trust the Labour Party to see sense on sex and gender, I'm considering returning to the fold, if I can bring myself to.

I don't know your back story@Floisme
Have you already tried to reason direct with LP?

I don't intend sharing my backstory Forwarder. I have come to the conclusion - I don't think it matters how - that Labour was set up to represent the working man, that fundamentally this is still its mindset and that no amount of beavering away on the inside will change it. It doesn't mean I'll never vote for them again - I might do if needs must - but I cannot imagine ever lifting another finger on their behalf.

I think the most effective thing women can do for now is force this conversation out into the sunlight, which is exactly what the Labour Party doesn't want to happen. Much as I admire LWD, I think that, when push comes to shove, they're too hidebound by party loyalty to force the issue.

Same. And he even has a daughter and a wife and still doesn't care.

This is what many of us have been saying for a long time.

Resigning from parties and organisations just leaves the that organisation free to do what the activists want with no opposing voice. These activists want you to resign which, in my book, is a very good reason not to!

It's a bad mistake making this issue Party political when all the main parties have their GC members and TRA members. We need to look at attitudes of the candidates themselves and more of us must be prepared to stand for positions where influence will make a difference.
Particularly when the Party pretending it's the only one that cares about women is actually the Party likely to do so badly at the moment.

Spoiling ballot papers is a con to get voters of the opposition to waste their vote. If it's not Gender politics, it's something else. They crawl out of the woodwork with their "waste of time voting" "no-one represents us" "politically homeless" every time there's an election looming and they've done it for decades.
Sad to see people still falling for it.

Resigning from parties and organisations just leaves the that organisation free to do what the activists want with no opposing voice

And even then, labour dont want women like us to join. Wheres the sense in paying good money to then bang your head against a brick wall.

I personally think it's better if we make sure that everyone in this country knows what's going on. Itll be more effective.

Spoiling ballot papers is a con to get voters of the opposition to waste their vote. If it's not Gender politics, it's something else. They crawl out of the woodwork with their "waste of time voting" "no-one represents us" "politically homeless" every time there's an election looming and they've done it for decades

I’ve never spoilt my vote and likely never will but who do you mean by ‘they’?

There’s a fair few posters saying they’ll spoil their votes on here, who do you think is doing the conning

Here's another thing I don't appreciate: women who are genuinely agonising over this being dismissed as being conned or even 'crawling out of the woodwork'.

The attitude that there's no other solution for women so we just have to hold our noses, be a bit braver but above all, stay loyal, is partly why I'm no longer a Labour member. It's certainly not going to win me back.

This is a hard decision, really hard. But we all have to find our own path through it and, even where we think someone else's decision is misguided or plain wrong, it would be kind of nice to see a bit of courtesy.

If I don't spoil my ballot, who the f can i vote for?
I applaud any women who are Labour Party members and are trying to restore sanity to the party. But I can't vote Labour and I won't vote Tory.

In my local election here, there was a tie between candidates. One of them was Labour. They had to draw lots to decide who would be the local councillor. I spoiled my ballot and didn't vote Labour. Had I voted Labour, it would have been enough to get them in. Labour lost the seat. I didn't vote Labour because of this bullshit (and a local issue). Don't tell me spoiling my ballot is meaningless.

I will never re-join the LP. I am done with it and will ever forgive or forget.

If you look upthread you will see my light bulb moment. In summary

Men will do what suits men. They see women in a support role.

Men are often quite nervous about gay men. They want to be open and liberal and accepting. They don't fully trust their own instincts, so will look to the gay man, in a group, on the board, etc, to set the moral direction.

So gay man says trans is the same as gay and you need to be accepting, they go along with that.

If gay man says that this whole LGBT+++ thing has gone to far, that sex and gender are different and that all trans is doing is reinforcing old fashioned stereotypes. Then women's views will be heard.

As for the gay man, it might depend of his own experience. Did he face prejudice so is quick to believe transwomen have the same. Is he opportunistic like Stonewall and see trans being the new oppression that can prolong his EDI career. Or, like plenty of other men does he see things the way we do, but unlike us he is listened to.

Which is sort of leading me on to why gay man and ethnic minorities do well in the Conservative party. (And which needs a whole other thread.) Perhaps there is less of an imposed script, so they have more freedom to call things as they see them.

My gay Conservative colleague was invited by Stonewall to join a register for LGB Councillors, something he accepted. Now the gender stuff has kicked off he would not do the same again. He loses nothing by distancing himself. Not playing the Stonewall game would probably get a Labour Councillor in trouble.

I'm an ex Labour party member, but my local Labour MP refuses to meet with her constituents on this issue. There is not a chance in hell I'll be voting for her. I wish those well who want t to stick with the project - but I'll be doing it from outside.

I think the Lib Dems picked up quite a few council seats this time round, as they tend to be the party of the protest vote in many areas - picking up from both Labour and Conservative. I voted Lib-Dem in order to reduce the influence of the utterly incompetetnt local Labour council - but I'll not be doing so at a general election.

There is a long way to go until November 2024 - and there is much that can shift and change before then. I wouldn't be banking on an ouright Labour win at this point.

"It seems women are bothered and none of the men are that bothered"

Point out they are likely to lose their urinals and have to queue with everyone else and they will get interested.

That summary is apt for my local party @Needmoresleep

@NotHavingIt she's seriously too scared to even listen to you?

I have to admit that despite my rage at Labour's position on gender, I am quite excited at the thought that they might win the next GE. I can't vote on one issue alone (although I accept it's a big one) because I think the Tories are just so damaging in all sorts of other ways. I won't be rejoining the LP, but I will vote for them and will continue to badger my Lab MP on this issue.

My feeling is that any laws they pass on gender etc will be some.sort of pragmatic compromise that will annoy both sides. Tbh I'm.more nervous of the LDs getting in on the act via a hung parliament as I think they are even further down the rabbit hole than Lab are.