Page 9 | "Lesbians being anti-trans is a lesbophobic trope"

MerlinsLostMarbles · 2023-05-01T12:36:42+00:00

[[https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/originals/lesbians-are-not-anti-trans https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/originals/lesbians-are-not-anti-trans/]] I think this helps give another viewpoint to the "gay people are anti-trans" trope that is often used by the LGB-Alliance and Julie Bindel etc. Lesbians often have to put up with harmful stereotypes that may deter them from coming out, and in recent years the "lesbians are anti-trans" is another stereotype on top of the existing ones.

QueenHippolyta · 02/05/2023 20:14

When I first came out some years ago I saw a very attractive girl from behind crossing the uni quad whilst I was genteely admiring her, she turned around and was a he with long hair and jeans.

I freaked out; was I really bi? So I mentally undressed him (😔 sorry) when I got to his male chest +meat and 2veg I was repulsed.
So happily continued on my Lesbian path.

Moral: be honest with yourself
It's wonderful to be Bi if you are

InterestingUsernameTBC · 02/05/2023 20:19

aseriesofstillimages · 02/05/2023 20:02

So on the logic of the majority on this thread, if a previously straight woman chats to a beautiful woman in a bar, finds herself desperately attracted to her, has a huge identity crisis because she’s never been attracted to a woman before, and finds it hard to reconcile herself to the idea she is in fact bisexual - but then finds out the object of her desire is actually a trans woman - she can just breath a sigh of relief, say ‘great, this changes nothing about my sexuality, I remain a 100% straight woman’?

it just doesn’t seem to me to bear any resemblance to how people actually think and feel about attraction and sexuality.

Well, since you mention it. There are actually lots of anecdotes from lesbians who find themselves unexpectedly attracted to what they think is a man. And as you say, find it hard to reconcile that attraction with what they understand about their own sexuality and when it becomes apparent that the 'man' in question is trans i.e. actually female, they do have a 'that makes sense moment' about the whole experience.

spannasaurus · 02/05/2023 20:21

aseriesofstillimages · 02/05/2023 20:02

So on the logic of the majority on this thread, if a previously straight woman chats to a beautiful woman in a bar, finds herself desperately attracted to her, has a huge identity crisis because she’s never been attracted to a woman before, and finds it hard to reconcile herself to the idea she is in fact bisexual - but then finds out the object of her desire is actually a trans woman - she can just breath a sigh of relief, say ‘great, this changes nothing about my sexuality, I remain a 100% straight woman’?

it just doesn’t seem to me to bear any resemblance to how people actually think and feel about attraction and sexuality.

Yes.

PorcelinaV · 02/05/2023 20:40

aseriesofstillimages · 02/05/2023 20:02

So on the logic of the majority on this thread, if a previously straight woman chats to a beautiful woman in a bar, finds herself desperately attracted to her, has a huge identity crisis because she’s never been attracted to a woman before, and finds it hard to reconcile herself to the idea she is in fact bisexual - but then finds out the object of her desire is actually a trans woman - she can just breath a sigh of relief, say ‘great, this changes nothing about my sexuality, I remain a 100% straight woman’?

it just doesn’t seem to me to bear any resemblance to how people actually think and feel about attraction and sexuality.

If she is turned on by the thought of vagina, then bisexuality I think.

Just as, if a "lesbian" is OK with penis, then bisexuality.

If you want to suggest the hypothetical that someone passes perfectly both gender and their physical body, for me, it's still questionable, because you would know it isn't a real vagina for one thing.

But hey, if you think that kind of hypothetical shows you are still a lesbian then OK. Back in the real world, they mostly don't perfectly pass.

WhiteFire · 02/05/2023 20:55

I thought the notion of passing was oh so dreadfully transphobic?

aseriesofstillimages · 02/05/2023 20:57

CremeEggQueen · 02/05/2023 01:51

Thanks for the context to the quote and accurately what she said, rare to see on here
(Genuinely didnt know the full until now, just people saying sexual racist but no source or actual quote)

Show quote history

No problem - although I see this may not have been the full story…..

aseriesofstillimages · 02/05/2023 21:01

PorcelinaV · 02/05/2023 02:30

You may be mixing up her statement in a BBC article, with a previous email she was supposed to have written.

Apparently there was a leaked email in which it was said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10225111/Stonewall-brands-lesbians-sexual-racists-raising-concerns-sex-transgender-women.html

Yet now it has emerged that months before the article appeared Stonewall’s chief executive Nancy Kelley wrote to the editorial director of BBC News to denounce Lowbridge’s work in an apparent attempt to get her piece stopped.

In her email, Kelley suggested that the BBC article would end up being ‘transphobic’ because it represented trans women as ‘sexual predators’, which was a ‘central anti-trans argument’.

She further complained that the ‘highly toxic’ cotton ceiling issue was ‘analogous to issues like sexual racism’.

Show quote history

Thank you for explaining that, I wasn’t aware of the DM article or the alleged leaked email. I couldn’t see the full text of the email in the article, so it’s hard to judge precisely what was said, or meant, without seeing the context.

PorcelinaV · 02/05/2023 21:36

aseriesofstillimages · 02/05/2023 21:01

Thank you for explaining that, I wasn’t aware of the DM article or the alleged leaked email. I couldn’t see the full text of the email in the article, so it’s hard to judge precisely what was said, or meant, without seeing the context.

Show quote history

OK fair enough. It does depend on whether you trust the Daily Mail's reporting of a leaked email; although if it was a completely false story then presumably Stonewall would have come out to say so.

PorcelinaV · 02/05/2023 21:41

WhiteFire · 02/05/2023 20:55

I thought the notion of passing was oh so dreadfully transphobic?

Yeah I'm wondering what would happen if you said on a lesbian dating site, "I'm a trans inclusive lesbian, but you need to pass perfectly"?

Is everyone happy with that?

Or is it, not only you can't say "biological females only", but you can't insist that trans women really pass?

SquidwardBound · 02/05/2023 21:43

It is curious to me why the lesbians so determined that shagging penises must be included in the description are obsessed with ‘beautiful’ trans women who ‘pass in every way’.

How many times have we been told on this thread that the beauty of trans women will win all those nasty sex-based lesbians over?

ValuePartnership · 02/05/2023 22:07

DREADFUL article. Pretty much says lesbians deserve what they get unless that can better establish their "pro-trans" credentials. To which end the word "trans" is never defined (or "lesbian" either) but they are just supposedly almost the same, and have lived in one anothers' pockets since ever, sharing the same goals. (a) factual rubbish - the same old re-writing of history to suit a preferred fantasy; (b) attempt to amalgamate lesbians into a statistically meaningless set of claims.

Hepwo · 02/05/2023 22:15

WhiteFire · 02/05/2023 20:55

I thought the notion of passing was oh so dreadfully transphobic?

It's gone out of the window now, we are only talking about Sports Illustrated model standard passing! With a world class photographer on hand of course.

So many double standards, I fear the coaching we are getting is in breach of many, many rules of identity. I wonder what the Twitter observers have to say about this inherently exclusionary inclusion approach?

TheBiologyStupid · 02/05/2023 22:16

nilsmousehammer · 02/05/2023 16:51

A male body with boobs and an artificial vagina and long hair, is still a male body.

Lesbianism is attraction to female people. The whole package of exclusive attraction to female people. The 'but if the male looked like this and this and this...'

No. People aren't human lego. It isn't the secondary sex characteristics that are the focus of attraction. I can appreciate the beauty of a male person, I can love the personality of a male person, but I can't feel sexual attraction to one. Wrong size, wrong shape, wrong smell even. What is this need to try and wangle those boundaries around until somehow it's possible to crowbar a male into lesbianism? Who is this helping? Why does it matter? If you're attracted to people of both sexes and you aren't specifically homosexual, then just be bi! Be proud, enjoy it, it's not a downgrade of any kind!

So eloquently put, as always - thanks!

zibzibara · 02/05/2023 22:19

It's one thing to be unintentionally fooled by sexual mimicry. Quite another to embrace it, pretend it's the real thing, and immerse yourself into the delusion.

TheBiologyStupid · 02/05/2023 22:23

PorcelinaV · 02/05/2023 19:39

Yep. No sausage in lesbian spaces is a reasonable rule.

Show quote history

😂

JanesLittleGirl · 02/05/2023 22:50

Why are there any reasonable grounds for policing lesbians on this forum?

Hepwo · 02/05/2023 23:08

We've had a few inclusive lesbians sent over to position an underwear model as the feminist vanguard.

No, I've got no idea either.

PorcelinaV · 02/05/2023 23:26

JanesLittleGirl · 02/05/2023 22:50

Why are there any reasonable grounds for policing lesbians on this forum?

The English language?

Jonei · 03/05/2023 03:42

JanesLittleGirl · 02/05/2023 22:50

Why are there any reasonable grounds for policing lesbians on this forum?

Did you mean bisexuals?

The meaning of words matter.

Dictionary.com

QueenHippolyta · 03/05/2023 08:17

I'm a strict vagitarian .

Florissante · 03/05/2023 08:35

I get it: if a lesbian is attracted to a TW who 'passes', the lesbian is not bisexual.

SquidwardBound · 03/05/2023 08:36

There is some thing really weird about how gender ideology adherents use the concept of ‘community’ as if it’s the same as ‘identity category’.

That’s possibly why the simple fact of meeting the descriptive criteria of bisexual rather than lesbian is being framed as an ‘exile from my community’.

Do people really live such social mediated, online lives that they can no longer distinguish between categories and communities?

If your actual community - the real people in your life - won’t accept you because you don’t fit in the right sexuality box, then that’s a problem. Redefining lesbian to include straight male people won’t solve that issue.

SquidwardBound · 03/05/2023 08:40

Apparently the neovagina will also be indistinguishable from a real vagina too in this passing to the point of being indistinguishable scenario. Which seems extremely unlikely.

Florissante · 03/05/2023 08:44

I would describe it as a "pseudo vagina" and not a "neo vagina". It's not new; it's a crude surgical approximation of the real thing.

zibzibara · 03/05/2023 08:54

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.