"Lesbians being anti-trans is a lesbophobic trope"

[MerlinsLostMarbles]

https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/originals/lesbians-are-not-anti-trans/

I think this helps give another viewpoint to the "gay people are anti-trans" trope that is often used by the LGB-Alliance and Julie Bindel etc.

Lesbians often have to put up with harmful stereotypes that may deter them from coming out, and in recent years the "lesbians are anti-trans" is another stereotype on top of the existing ones.

I noticed several of the speeches from the pro gender side yesterday referenced the US, including a couple of mentions of abortion laws. Really oddly. Has absolutely nothing to do with this issue; debating a point of UK law in UK parliament.

I would be very curious to hear how many lesbians may be affected by the 'chilling effect'.

Do lesbians feel safe expressing 'gender critical' views, or stating they exclude males from their sexuality?

We have polling specifically for women where it's a common view. The exact numbers depend on the issue you ask about. And depends on whether you specify that the trans women are still fully equipped. But potentially a majority are against the "trans rights" side.

It would be strange if it wasn't a common viewpoint with lesbians, as that would require a massive shift compared to women in general.

Some difference is quite possible, because of course you are speaking of women that identify with the LGBT so they may naturally be more liberal or more inclined to support "trans rights".

But the kind of polling difference you are talking about, you would need evidence for.

Not even a minimal effort to hide the US cultural colony mindset, or pretend some independent thought was involved.

Indeed.

I did. It was'verbal incontinence '.

Such as the minority view that trans women are women, for example?

Precisely.

This lesbian - and all the lesbians that I know - are all horrified that young lesbians are being instructed to accept men as partners. Just as we're horrified that there's an unrepresentative group of self proclaimed lesbians who profess approval of children being gaslit to believe they've been born in the wrong body and that body modification & sterilisation is a positive option.
That may be because many of us are lesbian parents, it may be because we're deeply committed to child safeguarding and it may be something to do with being old enough not to take crap from men.

Exactly. I’m horrified older lesbians in established relationships who have never had to scroll through a never ending parade of men with interesting haircuts on a women seeking women type apps, or were able to enjoy a same sex social scene in their youth, would throw their younger sisters under the bus for the sake of general youth approval and careerism.

Soz, but TeaKlaxon's pals all say it's fine, and so do 93% of the people who identify as lesbians in the House of Commons. Or pansexuals. Or bisexuals, or whatever it is that Kirsty Blackman identifies as.

Wasn't Kirsty B unsure? About her chromosomes and her genitals, let alone her identity??
Btw, is KB one of the in depth research group ?

She was very cross that people call her 'straight', is all I know.

Presumably that puts her on the list TeaKlaxon drew up.

Kirsty's inability to identify her biological sex as female, given that she has given birth, is a swingeing indictment of Scottish education.

And given she was a medical student, apparently.

But she didn't finish her degree. Can't think why.

She was a medical student, @ArabeIIaScott? Dear heaven - that made my jaw drop.

No, I don't think it's racist. How is it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirsty_Blackman

'Blackman was educated at Robert Gordon's College after winning a scholarship.[8] She matriculated at the University of Aberdeen to study medicine, but later dropped out.'

Medecine's loss is politics' gain.

"It's lesbophobic to say that lesbians don't want to have sex with men."

It's the narcissistic projection that gets me. It gives some men narc rage that lesbians don't want to have sex with men, but of course a man like that can't admit that he alone is the problem in this scenario. So he blames the messenger.

Lo and behold, the person stating the definition of "lesbian" is "lesbophobic" -and the man throwing all his toys out of the pram and having a screaming fit upon being reminded that lesbians exist is... well, better not say, he's used to women walking on eggshells to avoid the mantrums.

So many people in public life seem to qualify their expensive private education with "after winning a scholarship". Wonder if Layla Moran, who said the EA debate yesterday was dangerous for trans people, also identifies as having "won a scholarship" to Roedean.

-No, I don't think it's racist. How is it?

I wonder if being a lesbian is considered misandrist in and of itself, to a progressive bisexual person like @aseriesofstillimages

Someone certainly needs memory refreshing! I think it was 2016-17 when I saw an explosion on FB posts with genderqueer/trans/nonbinaries all coming with "genital preference is transphobic!"

They did get a lot of "that is rapey rhetoric!" responses but brushed off with "oh agree, just don't write off whole group of trans, you may even like them?" which is a different thing to say!

It was one of the first things that set me on a path to peaking... even when I was attracted to very masculine presenting transman at one point so I know sexuality can be more than "genitals" but there are also very physical sexual people (gay/lesbian/hetero) who strongly prefer "real meat" side (sorry to use such naff vocabulary).

I am disabled and I even had a date saying "I can't imagine dating disabled, sorry" - that never once made me want to be entitled to them.

TRA Riley J Dennis made a video telling us why genital preferences were transphobic but if you had trauma from being raped by a penis you can have a bit more time to come to terms before you get socially ostracised and attacked for your transphobia. Not too much, mind.

Here's a thread of examples I started back in 2018.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3294339-cotton-ceiling-evidence-thread

Thanks - some horrifying examples, but it's very necessary to be aware of them.