Caroline F - new arrest / harassment ?

[catsrus]

Caroline has just posted on twitter that the police were trying to force entry - WTF going on?

Three officers saying she has to go with them.

Three.

twitter.com/cf_farrow/status/1651514281471492096?s=46&t=rbPMHI1uvxUAiQC4E1EE3A

Damn, I'm as prescient as all get out today. The doubling down has been double down on!

I'm going to do the euro lottery.

Poor Suella Braverman. She's got an uphill struggle.

RoseslnTheHospital

We do.

All these 'lessons learned' things that you hear about get put into training packages and discussed at briefings and training days

You have a briefing at the start of each shift

Each case is reviewed by various departments - vulnerability desk, NCRS, crime management, VCOP is assessed, victims charter & management, bail management

New computer crime management tools track everything we do and analyse it - it then gets examined at a senior management level.

BWV gets dipped sampled and looked at and scrutinised frequently

Any 'issues' get raised straight away

Complaints get looked at straight away

secure emails so staff & officers can raise complaints about their colleagues

Datun
Well, public perception appears to be favourable - despite your best efforts to suggest otherwise.

I'd wait to put the lottery on if i were you!

That report is two years old, Felix. And I can easily see why you think is 25% of the general public having low confidence in the police is a win.

Taking this thread and the comments on it, do you think you, personally, have increased confidence in the police, or decreased confidence in the police?

@Felix125 wow, well with all that reflection going on the police must just be about perfect by now! Goodness knows what us silly little ladies are bothered about. Thank goodness you've explained it all to us! The way the police handle rape and sexual assault cases must be fine then, no issues to see here.

Every single post you make Felix makes me (and no doubt many others) have less and less trust in the police. I wouldn't report a damn thing to the police atm, bar getting a crime number for simple insurance cases of theft or similar.

I didn't join the police, though i wanted to so badly as a teenager, becuase i was 1 inch too short back when it really mattered.

I did eventually join the army, that great bastion of inclusion and diversity. This was the 80s, i was young, headhunted into exactly the right job for me and running around with a machine gun about 20% of the time. A flippin' good time was had by me.

And yet and yet. There was sexism and misogyny. We were warned about that at the recruiting office to be fair, and as a pads brat i knew it was coming. I didn't realise how bad it would be, and since my father was still serving at the time i suspect i was shielded from much of the worst of it.

But it was relentless. Say we'd all been on exercise for 6 weeks, having each other's backs doing the same job etc etc. Been back a few hours, had a shower and then wandered over to the bar for a pint. Immediately the door opened you'd be hit with a chorus of "get yer tits out for the lads", or some guy would unzip his fly and wave his dick at you. (answer to that? "oh it looks like a penis, but in miniature" - could get you a slap in the face or worse tho)

Or you'd be walking down a corridor in HQ and your major would call you in to his office to say "go to the stores and get smaller lightweights* - they should be tighter than that, so i can see the outline of your knickers. What colour are your knickers, btw?"

Or nightshift, or being on guard at nights and doing a perimiter check. 2 women not allowed out together, so always with a man. With a loaded rifle. And usually a pick-axe handle too. And pawing you sometimes, leering at you.

and worse and worse and more and more. All my ex-military friends have the same stories.

But if we go to a reunion, or write in fb groups and mention any of this? all the guys go "but i didn't see any of that" EVEN THE FUCKERS WHO WERE THE WORST OFFENDERS.

We know the police is a nest of racist, sexist misogyny. Even members of the upper heirarchy acknowledge that. Just not the plod on the beat. Funny that.

*the green trousers

Can anyone, anyone at all, explain how it is the responsibility of a traumatised victim of sexual assault to "complain" and " report" about her treatment at the hands of the police? The young women in Rotherham and other places, did just that and were ignored all over again!

Brefugee same experience! Line up outside, men on the left, splits on the right.

oh god I'd forgotten that one.

and when we had an SOP kit inspection (for those not in the know: it's all the stuff you have in your backpack etc ready to deploy at a moment's notice) holding up the 3 pairs of knickers we were required (mostly we packed PT knickers to stop this) and asking where the matching bras were. Why we didn't have shaving kit. Where are the tampons? They were not on the list - you had to have only what was on the list so that was bullshit, and we started packing shaving kits. Only to be put on orders for having kit we didn't need...
And then if we did have the not-on-the-list tampons in our packs, they unwrapped them and wore them as earrings, chucked them all over the place etc etc.

Mind you, there were 5 black guys in my troop (6 women) and about 40 others - all white men in F-Troop. And we got "men on the left collect your SLR from the armorour, splits on the right clllect your SMG from the armourer, F-Tribe - go over to the woods over there and cut some spears".

Relentless. And i hear it hasn't really changed. So it is beyond belief that this kind of low-level shit isn't happening in every police station in every force across the land.

actually, would any other ex-uniforms among us be interested in a separate thread about what we experienced, how we tackled it (or not) and what the consequences were if we did (or didn't)?

I can start a conversation

I'd be up for that, the treatment, the difference in pay, the different barrack dress but same combats and boots, drawer inspections when they always chose the knicker drawer...

See, we're not all girly la-la mummies, some of us are trained killers 🤣

My Dad was in the army, he was dead set against my older sister enlisting.

here you go

Felix125 - "More examples of being talked down to and mocked because i am a man - yet I am the one being accused of it???"

No, it is what you are DOING as a man, ie. hijacking a support thread about a WOMAN in distress to make it all about:

a) you (a man)
b) the allegedly 100% non-misogynistic you and the coppers with whom you work
c) what you don't know about the issue that is the topic of the thread
d) what you do know about how the police are supposed to conduct themselves
e) how you, a man, deal with women who contact the police to report that they have been raped.

This goes well beyond being cloth-eared.

You come over as a deeply sinister individual, someone who enjoys causing women distress by invading their space and assuming authority based on your purportedly superior wisdom and experience.

The parallels with other male "space invaders" are not hard to see.

I wish I could imagine you as the cop dressed as a bumble bee but other cops spring more readily to mind.

The UK police are a dangerously sexist joke
https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/the-uk-police-are-a-dangerously-sexist

Did you see the Newsnight piece on sexual assaults on women in the British armed services? Last night, with Mark Urban. Devastating, not just that women are assaulted but that men are let off because it would spoil their careers otherwise. And that it's been discussed for so long without being put right. And that conviction rates are even lower than in the criminal court. Dreadful.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001m0s5

RoseslnTheHospital
You wanted to know what practices we have - there's your answer.

Brefugee
Army - sounds horrendous and you have my total sympathy that that you had to endure it. You should not have had to put up with it at all and it should have been stopped and the perpetrators kicked out.

But its not the police force and I have not seen anything like your experiences. You honestly think I regularly 'wave my dick' at a female colleague? or any of my team engage in that sort of activity?

Bosky
I'm not hijacking any thread - I am posting as i am free and able to. More people are posting as a collective than I am.

"how you, a man, deal with women who contact the police to report that they have been raped." - by not judging them, believing what they say without question. By not putting any pressure on them and giving them help & support. Hows is this wrong? What should I be doing then?

"what you don't know about the issue that is the topic of the thread" - Caroline was arrested by 3 cops - but we don't know why. We don't know who the reporting person is or what they have alleged. So my question is - how can we judge if the police were right or wrong?

Datun
That was the most up-to-date report after a quick look on the ONS. If you can find a more recent one - great. The surveys will only be done per year so 2022 result may not have been examined & released yet - which is probably why 2021 is the most recent.

With regards this thread - increased or decreased confidence in the police. We don't know, until we know why the police were there in the first place. We can assume that they have just done this to annoy Caroline and it was a false arrest. Or we can assume that the reporting person has made a genuine allegation which was a direct threat and backed up with hard evidence. but we just don't know yet do we. And since we don't know - we can't judge what the police have done.

Dumbo12
Its not their responsibility - but its an option they have.
Complaints can also be raised by the SARC staff, solicitors, support agencies (Rape crisis support etc), police, their family & friends. Anyone really that has a concern about how a case was dealt with and at any point.

Same disclaimers as before......

I'm not surprised you haven't answered my question. 🙄

Datun
I thought it would be apparent.

My confidence remains the same as what it was. I can not judge at this point why the police were there.

If it is a case that they have arrested her for no particular reason and lied to get her into custody - then my confidence is lowered.

If its a case that based on what the reporting person has alleged - a threat, harm risk assessment was made and a necessity to arrest Caroline was determined. So that arrest was carried out to prevent harm or continuing crime against the reporting person - then my confidence is raised.

But since we don't know - I can't judge.
We don't know who the reporting person was, what the allegation is, if its a state based offence, what the risks are, what the safeguarding issues are.........

We/I just don't know at this stage - so my confidence remains unchanged.

Same disclaimers as before....

No.

Do you think, based on the comments on this thread, that your conduct, on this thread, has decreased or increased confidence in the police force.

Perhaps I need to spell it out more simply.

Do you think that you have increased or decreased the confidence in the police of the posters on this thread? The one you are writing on.

If this conversation starts, can you @ me in, please? I'd be interested to read it, though my experiences are only as a dependant & the DIL of a regular army soldier & Dunkirk evacuee (I'm old, & he was getting on when he had DH! Bless him, he was lovely; my own father was not & was worse than all the officers & men/women I met).

I have no idea

Right from page 1 after my fist post I started to receive abuse comments from people. So those people are 'anti police' and 'anti me' - their confidence will not change.

And throughout the thread i continued to receive posts calling me names, sea-lion, splainer etc etc.

But hardly any would raise an argument against what I have been saying all along.

Can you not see that we don't know the details of the case yet so we can't judge what the police have done?

So - on here i don't think confidence is going to change. But this is a small section of the public. However the ONS seems show a 75% confidence level.

I would say it has remained unchanged.

It is a pity Mumsnet does not include adding a Poll mid-thread.

On what do you base your guess that your posting on this thread has had no impact on the posters on this thread wrt their confidence in the police?

"throughout the thread i continued to receive posts calling me names, sea-lion, splainer etc etc."

Yes, and were those all from the members who you claim "abused" you right after your first post. No.

The evidence would suggest that you are wrong and that your contributions have decreased confidence in the police.

Are you so biased in your policing or do you actually bother to look at the evidence?