Caroline F - new arrest / harassment ?

[catsrus]

Caroline has just posted on twitter that the police were trying to force entry - WTF going on?

Three officers saying she has to go with them.

Three.

twitter.com/cf_farrow/status/1651514281471492096?s=46&t=rbPMHI1uvxUAiQC4E1EE3A

There seems to be a theme as to when police take action and when they don't. Good job misogyny wasn't added to the hate crimes list we'd not have a functioning police force left though currently it only seems to work for roughly half the population

It absolutely was revenge porn, and my understanding is it was a private, anonymous members only site. The sole intention of what was done was to humiliate and intimidate the victim.

Just to be clear @Felix125

You are comparing one case where a woman was accused of libellous tweets and not only was visited by police but they forced entry into her house with another (ie analogous) case where a man who threatened his ex partner’s children with anal rape and killing her as a similar level of threat.

But interesting that they weren’t treated as such by the police, no? I wonder why? When a person policeman shows you who they are, believe them.

Fuzzy logic.

My understanding re the alleged revenge porn is that someone who attended a court case virtually, received a threatening email.

They googled the username of person who had sent them this threatening email and the results came up with publicly listed pages and photographs in that username which belonged to another real person involved in the court case.

In other words, by sending an anonymous abusive email, a person doxed themselves and the Antipodean agriculturalists archived it.

Not sure about all your claims there, but ‘archived it’ is an interesting way to describe stealing somebody’s sensitive private photos and directly posting them on to the internet’s most notorious stalking forum. And ‘a person doxed themselves’ is an interesting way to describe the act of doxing a person on this same said forum.

This is not the language you would be using if this happened to you or somebody you cared about.

DrBlackbird

It wasn't me that compared the two - you did that on your previous post.

I am just saying that we should be listening to what the reporting person has said. Investigating and safeguarding properly. And what better way to safeguard someone than arrest the perpetrator.

And of course the threat level will differ from call to call and each case will be assessed with regards to threat, harm & risk

But - and I have said this a few times here - we don't know that this is a case of just libelous tweets at this point. If it was, the police haven't got a power to enter.

We also don't know why Northamptonshire failed - was it at the caller taker stage, dispatch stage or police officer stage? Had they simply ran out of units at that part of the shift and this call was queued? Has the neighbour been a persistent caller in that the last 10 times they have phoned up it turned out that the male could not be located - so they have (wrongly) believed the neighbour to be vexatious?

That's why i am saying you can't simply disregard what reporting people are saying. Their account has to be taken on merit and then risk assessed accordingly.

Disclaimer - I am using 'we' to mean me and most others on here. I acknowledge that some on here will know or have been told the details of the complaint and I am aware that Caroline may have access to this thread or indeed people close to her. I also acknowledge that the reporting person, OIC and direct witnesses may also read the thread and hence will not be included in the term 'we'.

This post is also answering a point raised by DrBlackbird. Other posters need not comment on it. By all mean post if you want to, but I reserve my right to answer posts raised by members of this forum.

Surly it would be 'fuzzy logic' if we were to simply ignore a reporting person just because they are making a complaint against Caroline. Yet expect all reporting persons to be listened to an acted on - such as the case in Northamptonshire?

You can't have it both ways - surly the logical stance would be to listen to what the reporting person has said, investigate & safeguard properly each time.

Same disclaimers as above.

@Felix125 so, two questions… sticking with our comparison of the two cases I mentioned, one, do you genuinely believe that from everything you know about the CF case (adding in all your caveats and putting aside who was at fault in the Northhampshire etc etc), and just focusing on the threat level, do you honestly and in good faith believe that the threat levels were similar?

Two, from everything you’ve read on these threads, everything that is being reported about rampant misogyny in many police forces (NAPALT etc) and everything you personally know and have seen as a serving policeman genuinely do not understand why women believe that CF’s arrest is targeted harassment rather than ‘safeguarding properly’?

DrBlackbird

No - very probably the threat levels will not be similar. But there again, we still do not know what the current 'allegation' against Caroline is. So at this point we can't determine the threat level. Northampshire was a threat to kill and threat to cause a serious sexual offence - but what was the allegation made with regards to Caroline?

Should previous calls be taken into consideration when determining the threat level of a current incident? If the reporting person against Caroline has already made 10 calls to police previously which resulted in no further action - should future calls from this person be taken with a 'pinch-of-salt'. What if it turned out that the caller in the Northampshire case was another person who had called the police 10 previous times with no further action as a result. Was it right to take their future call with a 'pinch-of-salt'?

Each call to police should be assessed as to threat, harm & risk on its own merits. What ever report is being made by the reporting person it should be investigated properly. So, yes the Northampshire case should have been dealt with properly and had a response to it. But in the same light, the reporting person against Caroline should have their report dealt with properly and had a response to it.

If you think that Caroline's arrest is just targeted harassment by the police, then you're going to have to show me something to support this. We don't know what the allegation is and we don't know the state of play with the current investigation. Yes - there has been a whole host of horrible incidents in the police in recent years and any cop involved in this should be sacked and/or jailed.

But if you think that this is a case of 3 cops being bored one day and simply headed off to arrest Caroline for no particular reason - then I don't think that's the case. From my experience, this enquiry will be on some response cops crime queue - one of about 10-15 jobs that will need to be dealt with. And they need to deal with them quickly as more & more jobs are coming their way. And that's before you take into account incoming emergencies, missing people, etc etc. Some offences are 6 months time barred so you have to deal with them quickly.

The shifts I work with are sound and I have not witnessed any form of misogyny. The shifts are about 50/50 male to female and most have a wide range of ages although the mean average will be about 25-30. The only Whatsapp account we have shares information for nights out, help with moving furniture or bringing some milk in. Our force doesn't have rainbow cars, lanyards, pin badges, Ukraine badges, poppies etc. If I do see anything that is slightly misogynistic I will call it out.

(Same disclaimer as above)

Felix125 - "Our force doesn't have rainbow cars, lanyards, pin badges, Ukraine badges, poppies etc. Our force doesn't have rainbow cars, lanyards, pin badges, Ukraine badges, poppies etc."

Good to know that there is at least one part of the UK that is not infested with cops dressed as bumble-bees or driving around with a bloody great sign warning people (incorrectly) that "being offensive is an offence". I wonder where that is?

How well did your police force do in terms of "Vetting, misconduct and misogyny"?

11 May 2023
Vetting, misconduct and misogyny in the police service: review of progress

" . . . while forces have become less likely to give clearance to unsuitable applicants, we still found 13 cases of concern. These included cases where the applicant had:

• a connection with an organised crime group;
• a history of allegations of domestic abuse against several partners;
• a history of allegations of dishonesty (including a criminal charge);
• unexplained debts; or
• deliberately omitted significant information from their vetting application form.

They also included cases where the applicant had a family member who had been imprisoned for:

• drug dealing; or
• serious sexual offences and was now a registered sex offender."

https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmicfrs/publication-html/vetting-misconduct-and-misogyny-in-the-police-service-review-of-progress-letter/

Vetting, misconduct and misogyny in the police service: review of progress

Published on: 11 May 2023

Publication types: Correspondence, Integrity and corruption and Letter

Police Forces: All local forces in England and Wales

Following the publication of our report into vetting, misconduct and misogyny in the police service, the Home Secretary asked HMICFRS to provide an urgent update on the progress police forces in England and Wales have made.

On 11 May 2023, Matt Parr, His Majesty’s Inspector of Constabulary, wrote to the Home Secretary and addressed the police service’s progress against the 43 recommendations and 5 areas for improvement HMICFRS made in the report.

HMI Parr’s letter summarised our main findings and provided an annex with additional detail, including an explanation of the work we have done to verify police force self-assessments.

Get the letter
Read the letter online
Vetting, misconduct and misogyny in the police service: review of progress – letter (HTML)
Download the letter

Vetting, misconduct and misogyny in the police service: review of progress – letter (PDF document)

Get the annex
Read the annex online
Annex to Home Secretary’s letter – Vetting, misconduct and misogyny in the police service: review of progress (HTML)
Download the annex

Annex to Home Secretary’s letter – Vetting, misconduct and misogyny in the police service: review of progress (PDF document)

Get the data

These data sheets provide all ratings for the police forces included in the annex.

Forces were assessed using red, amber, green (RAG) ratings. Full explanations for these ratings can be found in the annex.

Get the self-reported police force ratings

This data sheet contains each police force’s self-assessment of its progress against the recommendations in our report, using the RAG ratings.

Table containing all RAG ratings by police forces (Spreadsheet)

Get HMICFRS’s ratings

This data sheet contains HMICFRS’s RAG rating of each police force’s progress

Table containing all RAG ratings by HMICFRS (Spreadsheet)

Read more about our inspection into vetting, misconduct and misogyny in the police service

Inspections of police capability and capacity to vet and monitor officers and staff

https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmicfrs/publications/an-inspection-of-vetting-misconduct-and-misogyny-in-the-police-service/

Ours looks as though its done extremely well

The shifts I work with are sound and I have not witnessed any form of misogyny.

With respect, we live in a patriarchal world and misogyny is rife. It rings alarm bells to say you haven’t witnessed it. It’s similar to thinking racism isn’t an issue. It just is, even in environments with the best intentions and diversity.

Answering Felix's Qs would likely see me fending off another police complaint / demented unsuccessful civil claim. So, I will say just this: Do we believe a random man with no knowledge of events or someone who is actually fairly close to Caroline and knows case details (such as the complained of posts)?

And what better way to safeguard someone than arrest the perpetrator.

@Felix125 we don’t know that there is someone who can be described as “the perpetrator” do we? I thought the sole purpose of your many posts was to say “we don’t know”, but it certainly feels as if you have made your mind up.

If felix doesn't see any misogyny in his force and feels they are all exemplary officers then you have to start wondering if he just doesn't recognise it because everyone including him is misogynistic so its 'normal '

Mumsnet hq can we re-name this thread "man claiming to be a policeman tells women to shut up"

Felix does not do much to support any idea that he takes time to listen to women and try to understand their concerns.

The impression is that his response to ideas that are different to his own is to try and bludgeon them with mansplaining.

People have all kinds of hobbies. Perhaps Felix would consider painting Warhammer miniatures, very satisfying hobby. It lacks that je ne sais quoi that you get from telling women off, but on the other hand, you get painted Space Marines! So, yanno...

MissMissive & BaronessEllarawrosaurus
So who on my shift is misogynistic and racist....? And what specific things have they done that would fall into that category...? Since you seem to be accusing them of such things.
And before you say 'me' - you're going to have to back that up with something.

DrLouiseJMoody
Please read the disclaimers I have added to my responses

Transparent2
I've not said that it applies in this case - and you are correct, we still don't know the specifics of the allegation. But it is a good way to safeguard someone if the necessity to arrest exists. But since we don't know, we don't know if there was a necessity in this case. But if it's a summary offence only, then the police would not have had a power to enter in the first place.

averylongtimeago
I haven't told anyone to 'shut up'

In fact quite the contrary- I am inviting a debate on the subject.

Needmoresleep
I have listened, but I simply don't agree that we can judge the police response on this occasion when we don't know what the reported incident is. We don't know if its made by the same person or if it's connected to Caroline's previous incidents.

Disclaimer - I am using 'we' to mean me and most others on here. I acknowledge that some on here will know or have been told the details of the complaint and I am aware that Caroline may have access to this thread or indeed people close to her. I also acknowledge that the reporting person, OIC and direct witnesses may also read the thread and hence will not be included in the term 'we'.

This recent post is also answering a point raised by DrBlackbird. Other posters need not comment on it. By all mean post if you want to, but I reserve my right to answer posts raised by members of this forum.

BezMills
Thanks - but I have lots of other hobbies & pastimes. Mountain biking, loads of sports, fell running. I have 3 children who are also very sporty. I'm also into fixing/renovating cars - so a lot of posts on here are between paint coats drying on cars or waiting for a diagnostic download on a car. Whist the computer is doing that, I will browse this site on another tab.

I don't understand why anyone bothers to read his 'contributions', let alone respond to them.

I think Felix is trying to tell me something, no idea what. Why read his walls of text when there's so much other tedious stuff that has to be done.

The recent posts I was answering 2 questions posted by DrBlackbird. They have posted 2 questions for me, which I have answered. I think it would be quite rude of me not to answer their questions - so I answered them.

Other posters don't have to comment or read them if they don't want to - it was directed to DrBlackbird.

If other posters want to post however - then great - I will respond to their posts.

After all - I'm not trying to silence anyone on here

MissMissive & BaronessEllarawrosaurus
So who on my shift is misogynistic and racist....? And what specific things have they done that would fall into that category...? Since you seem to be accusing them of such things.
And before you say 'me' - you're going to have to back that up with something.

I don’t ‘have’ to do anything.

And to who is misogynistic? Statistically, a large portion of our patriarchal society. With the best intentions, of course it must occur in your force. The same way it occurs in people’s homes, schools, the supermarket, courts etc etc etc

The red flag is not in acknowledging its existence, but rather denying that it’s unfortunately rife.