Page 31 | Caroline F - new arrest / harassment ?

catsrus · 2023-04-27T09:37:51+00:00

Caroline has just posted on twitter that the police were trying to force entry - WTF going on? Three officers saying she has to go with them. Three. https://twitter.com/cf_farrow/status/1651514281471492096?s=46&t=rbPMHI1uvxUAiQC4E1EE3A

DrBlackbird · 14/05/2023 23:01

@Felix125 The shifts I work with are sound and I have not witnessed any form of misogyny so from your personal experience you’ve not witnessed any. That’s great, albeit surprising that absolutely no one has made a sexist comment in your hearing. I’ve supervised the dissertations of some extremely intelligent and thoughtful police.

On the other hand, the many constant media reports, as well as personal family experience, lead me to conclude that I am comfortable with making a judgement on the action’s of the police in the CF case on the basis of existing information. You give the benefit of the doubt to the police and want to wait to learn more.As such, we’ll have to agree to disagree on this particular matter.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/may/06/metropolitan-police-sexism-misogyny-year-special-constable

‘The sexism was so blatant, as if officers felt irreproachable’: my year on the streets with the Met police

From “talent spotting” women to endless lewd banter, the everyday misogyny I witnessed in my time as a special constable was a sign of a broken force

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/may/06/metropolitan-police-sexism-misogyny-year-special-constable

Felix125 · 15/05/2023 06:23

MissMissive
If we are working on assumptions and probabilities then the vast majority of arrests are justified and proportionate with only a very few that are found to be 'false arrests'

Also, of the entire police force of 140,000 cops - 178 were dismissed from the force through dismissal last year which is only a very small percentage.

So under, assumptions and probabilities, then is this current arrest justified?

thedancingbear · 15/05/2023 07:50

Also, of the entire police force of 140,000 cops - 178 were dismissed from the force through dismissal last year which is only a very small percentage.

Weelll, assuming the average copper works for 30 years, that means that around 4% of you will ultimately get the boot. Given you have to do something fucking horrific to actually get sacked (as opposed to just 'words of advice', written warning etc); and given it's indisputable that you look out out for your own, come what may (cf. this thread), this stat doesn't say what you think it does. Instead, it suggests you are rotten to the core.

Bosky · 15/05/2023 08:07

Felix125 - of the entire police force of 140,000 cops - 178 were dismissed from the force through dismissal last year which is only a very small percentage.

How many others:

a) retired (and took their pensions) while under investigation or awaiting investigation?

b) resigned while under investigation or awaiting investigation?

(Too often I read that no disciplinary action could be taken for these reasons.)

c) were not dismissed, sometimes not even given a teeny weeny slap on the wrist, despite being found guilty of offences that would get mere mortals sacked?

AlisonDonut · 15/05/2023 09:09

I don't see any misogyny, I just spend my free time on the feminist board of mumsnet telling women they are wrong.

Tallisker · 15/05/2023 09:56

...and force teaming the silent majority

Dumbo12 · 15/05/2023 10:07

The resident apologist for the force also appears to think that if they keep telling us that they can't force entry, for some offences, that we will believe that C has committed some other offence. Heaven forfend that possibly this force has entered her house on false grounds!

Needmoresleep · 15/05/2023 10:51

Kiwifarms, the archiver of all things Farrow, is back up.

Perhaps our friend might divert some of his time to reading some of the material that has been culled from Internet sources (court records etc) over the past six or seven years.(Actually I have no idea how long things have been going on, but my memory is that Caroline appears to have been suffering what might be described as harassment for at least half a decade.)

BlackeyedSusan · 15/05/2023 11:52

PurpleBugz · 30/04/2023 08:35

Re social services being used to control women with fear. Look at DV suffferers or survivors. When I went to freedom program all the mothers were terrified of social services being used by their ex and most ex do use them. I saw a woman lose custody of her children because she had not left a domestic violence home and could not be trusted to safeguard her children- The children were then given to the abusive ex because he'd never actually abuse them just that mother and he was remorseful so therefore safe. I myself was told by SW to leave and block contact or risk loosing my kids so I did this but then a new SW says I deprived the kids of a father which they are concerned about and I became the bad guy.

I myself had my ex,refer to me as mentally ill and delusional. That went in the social services report that got taken to Family Court that was used in the judges decision-making on my children, having contact with a violent man. I took legal action against social services they paid me off- but it was too late Contact was established. You cannot remove it once it's been going okay. Thank fuck he has a new partner who does all of the childcare so my kids are actually looked after okay.

With the police my ex broke into my house through an open window on the second floor. He trashed it by making mess nothing broken. iPads laptop to the TV everything was left. Nothing was stolen except for the children's artwork and ultrasound scans out of photo frames. Police wouldn't investigate they were dismissive, said nothing of value was taken.

This is not unusual experience for women who go through DV. Every time we speak up everyone says 'there must be more to it' 'she's not telling us everything' because people have blind faith in these authorities!

Legal action agains SS is not cheep. I was lucky to be able to do it and most single parents are not in that position. The process is also difficult and when emotionally vulnerable we shy from that

Well done and thank you for taking action.

MissMissive · 15/05/2023 20:25

Felix125 · 15/05/2023 06:23

MissMissive
If we are working on assumptions and probabilities then the vast majority of arrests are justified and proportionate with only a very few that are found to be 'false arrests'

Also, of the entire police force of 140,000 cops - 178 were dismissed from the force through dismissal last year which is only a very small percentage.

So under, assumptions and probabilities, then is this current arrest justified?

You don’t seem to be replying to my post, wrong poster? Which is fine, but others have / will reply to these specific points, vs me. I was merely pointing out the endemic nature of misogyny.

Felix125 · 16/05/2023 06:23

thedancingbear
Over 30 years service the 140,000 number will increases also - so the percentage will be a lot lower than 4%. Its not a case of 'looking out for you colleagues' as you can be sacked too for doing that.

Bosky
Not sure - but it won't be a very high percentage and will be similar to other professions I would guess. The vast majority of cops will not fall into those categories.

AlisonDonut
Disagreeing with someone on here doesn't make me misogynistic.

Dumbo12
Not at all - I have said that the cops in this case may be in the wrong - and if so should be disciplined. But we don't know the details yet of why they were there in the first place.

Needmoresleep
I've covered this several times - we don't know if the current arrest & enquiry is related to Caroline's previous 'back story'.

MissMissive
I have replied to your post. You're accusing me and my shift specifically of being misogynistic - but can't or won't supply and evidence for this. You're just assuming we are based on other incidents you read about. That's like me accusing you of being a racist because other members of the public are sometimes racist. Its a very 'post hoc' argument.

Same disclaimers as before.

MissMissive · 16/05/2023 06:44

Felix125 · 16/05/2023 06:23

thedancingbear
Over 30 years service the 140,000 number will increases also - so the percentage will be a lot lower than 4%. Its not a case of 'looking out for you colleagues' as you can be sacked too for doing that.

Bosky
Not sure - but it won't be a very high percentage and will be similar to other professions I would guess. The vast majority of cops will not fall into those categories.

AlisonDonut
Disagreeing with someone on here doesn't make me misogynistic.

Dumbo12
Not at all - I have said that the cops in this case may be in the wrong - and if so should be disciplined. But we don't know the details yet of why they were there in the first place.

Needmoresleep
I've covered this several times - we don't know if the current arrest & enquiry is related to Caroline's previous 'back story'.

MissMissive
I have replied to your post. You're accusing me and my shift specifically of being misogynistic - but can't or won't supply and evidence for this. You're just assuming we are based on other incidents you read about. That's like me accusing you of being a racist because other members of the public are sometimes racist. Its a very 'post hoc' argument.

Same disclaimers as before.

MissMissive
I have replied to your post. You're accusing me and my shift specifically of being misogynistic - but can't or won't supply and evidence for this. You're just assuming we are based on other incidents you read about. That's like me accusing you of being a racist because other members of the public are sometimes racist. Its a very 'post hoc' argument.

Not specifically, generally. More so, based on your assertion it can’t be the case.

Am I racist? As much as I’d like to self righteously say no, I’d have had to be hiding under a rock for the last few years to not understand unconscious bias and that when we live within a society, often don’t realise the ways in which we are shaped by it. As soon as I declare myself not so, would be the time I would likely become somewhat so. The complete opposite to what you suggest.

Less elegantly, I’d eat my hat if there’s no misogyny in your force. I’d bet my house on it, in fact.

SinnerBoy · 16/05/2023 06:57

How many in the Met have criminal convictions? And how many in the Met are under investigation for sex offences?

DrBlackbird · 16/05/2023 08:36

AlisonDonut · 15/05/2023 09:09

I don't see any misogyny, I just spend my free time on the feminist board of mumsnet telling women they are wrong.

😆

SinnerBoy · 16/05/2023 08:55

I'm starting to wonder if Felix is stationed in Enid Blyton's Toytown, to be honest.

IcakethereforeIam · 16/05/2023 08:57

I wonder what that copper from Balamory is doing now?

SinnerBoy · 16/05/2023 08:59

Good point, Felix does come across as a bit of a plum....

Needmoresleep · 16/05/2023 09:43

SinnerBoy · 16/05/2023 08:55

I'm starting to wonder if Felix is stationed in Enid Blyton's Toytown, to be honest.

Blyton's Plod character was apparently based on the local policeman in Studland village Dorset.

SerafinasGoose · 16/05/2023 09:50

Needmoresleep · 16/05/2023 09:43

Blyton's Plod character was apparently based on the local policeman in Studland village Dorset.

Show quote history

Ah, memories of the 'Five Find Outers and Dog' and their nemesis, PC Goon!

He was awful. Thick as two short planks, but sadistic with it.

Confirmedwitch · 16/05/2023 11:48

Can you say 100% that the reporting person this time is the same person as before?

That was what Caroline said before she locked her Twitter account.

The person concerned boasted about going back to her local police station after she was arrested the first time. There is a live tweet from that person who says they are making a witness statement mentioning Rod Hull and emu, whatever that means.

Perhaps Caroline has threatened to go and take someone’s shoes off in an aggressive fashion and that’s why 4 police officers were needed to arrest her.

Those who know the backstory and history, know that this is disproportionate.

A similar thing happened in R v Scottow

@Felix125 Do you think it’s justified to send 3 police cars to arrest and handcuff a breastfeeding woman because she has been offensive on the internet? This is what happened to Kate Scottow and whatever you think of Farrow, this looks no different.

MissMissive · 16/05/2023 14:39

AlisonDonut · 15/05/2023 09:09

I don't see any misogyny, I just spend my free time on the feminist board of mumsnet telling women they are wrong.

I think the thread can end here 🤣🤣🤣

Felix125 · 16/05/2023 16:51

SinnerBoy
Number of Met cops under investigation - 548. Out of 32,493 total. 1.6%
So 98% of cops are not under investigation. And I'm not in the Met by the way.

Confirmedwitch
So what was the 'offensive' things that Scottow was accused of - and what was it that the reporting person alleged? Are the two accounts different perhaps? Any independent witnesses or independent evidence (phone records etc) to support one side or the other?

As is the case with Caroline - you need to establish both sides of the enquiry before we can judge as to whether the police were right or wrong.

If she has sent a message over the internet which was not threatening or harassing or malicious or offensive - then no, the police response is not correct. Such a thing should have been filtered out at the call taker stage.

But why has it got the the point of being crimed and a police enquiry started resulting in an arrest? I take it Scottow has made a complaint of false arrest & false imprisonment against the OIC and custody sergeant? Has Caroline done the same?

If its a case that 4 cops have been sat bored in the office one day and decided 'lets go out and arrest a woman for no particular reason'
Arrested her and manged to persuade a custody sergeant to accept her detention under very dubious circumstances & necessity - risking all their jobs & pensions. Then its clearly wrong.

But given the workloads that response cops have and having worked in it for 20+ years, I really don't think its the case. Most cops want to get rid of jobs as quick as they can without the necessity to arrest anyone, its a lot quicker - we don't get any bonuses for arrests. More and more jobs keep coming in along with a whole host of mental health cases, safeguarding etc etc - so you don't want to give yourself extra work and have a crime queue going through the roof.

MissMissive
There is no evidence to suggest what ever your unconscious bias might be for what ever marker you choose, that its going to directly affect your behaviour. This is another thread subject really - but the tests are not reliable and the results are all over the place. Its like a ghost of a ghost. You can test someone one day - and give them the same test the day after and the results are completely different. So you can't justifiably say that it affects your behaviour.

So, OK then - if you are accusing me & my shift of being 'generally' misogynistic, where has this occurred in our behaviour?

Bosky · 16/05/2023 17:25

Felix125 if you want to opine about the Scottow case it has been covered extensively in the press and on MN and there are court records. Come back when you have done your research instead of surmising about the facts.

Felix125 · 16/05/2023 17:33

I don't want to opine about the Scottow case - it wasn't me that brought it up. I'm just drawing the parallel that 'we' will not know the full story.

This thread is about Caroline's case - I think we should stick to that.

*Same disclaimers as before.

Bosky · 16/05/2023 17:36

Good. Then I hope we can rely on your not chucking in your twopenn'orth again despite your having zero knowledge about the Scottow case.