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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jackie Green reacts to KJK

302 replies

FisherthemsFriend · 25/04/2023 12:05

https://twitter.com/The_StateMedia/status/1650560961353248769

Above is a clipped version, highlighting the many times JG calls KJK a bitch. In the Twitter thread is JG’s original video.

I wasn’t sure whether to post this. Really the person to criticise is Susie Green, but at the same time JG is an adult and has publicly made a video using misogynistic language. Or does the background mean JG should be off-limits? Opinions welcome.

https://twitter.com/The_StateMedia/status/1650560961353248769

OP posts:
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12
WinterTrees · 25/04/2023 15:57

i'm not going to lie, I found it all rather shocking.

Me too. Absolutely. I need more time to process what I just saw.

The worst thing is, I think the same is true for Jackie.

Datun · 25/04/2023 15:58

donquixotedelamancha · 25/04/2023 15:54

I don't think an adult who says stuff like that can reasonably be off limits but I do agree that engaging with her doesn't help our cause and I wish people wouldn't.

Don't interrupt your enemy while they are making a mistake.

She's clearly (and understandably) very damaged. Her being in the public eye isn't going to help Susie Greene's case that castrating her son helped him.

All of this.

Adult trans children are no advert for transition. None.

Which is why I'm not surprised the video was pulled.

Cherrywoo · 25/04/2023 15:59

potniatheron · 25/04/2023 15:54

I know you probably didn't labour over word choice but it's really important to understand that puberty blockers do not cause you to 'skip past puberty'.

What Lupron does is basically stunt growth by blocking certain growth hormones which also activate puberty. The body and brain keeps growing, but without the activation of these crucial hormones which are known to play incredibly important roles in joint strength and motility, brain maturation, bone density and soft tissue formation, which regulates everything from the strength of the heart and lungs to the strength of the ankles, wrists and hips to the efficacy of the digestive system.

The medical establishment simply does not know what the longer term health effects of stunting physical maturation are. Other than a blanket but tacit admission that they're very unlikely to be good.

The skip past puberty bit was a reference to all those people who still seem to believe it’s a harmless pause to puberty.

It’s obvious to most (at least on here) that “pausing” puberty with dangerous, experimental drugs is catastrophically damaging to children, as Jackie proves. Susie Green has literally created an adult with special needs.

Datun · 25/04/2023 15:59

WinterTrees · 25/04/2023 15:57

i'm not going to lie, I found it all rather shocking.

Me too. Absolutely. I need more time to process what I just saw.

The worst thing is, I think the same is true for Jackie.

Yeah 🙁

Shelefttheweb · 25/04/2023 16:00

For those who say JG is off limits. Is this for everything at all times? So we shouldn’t comment on an internet video of JG commenting on a public figure? What about if JG was on prime time TV? Would we be allowed to comment on what they say if JG was appearing in front of a parliamentary committee? What about if they turned up at your school and spent a week promoting the use of puberty blockers? Or started giving out free samples courtesy of Gender GP? At what point are we allowed to comment on an adult who takes a public position? Isn’t this just another game of #NoDebate?

ReadersD1gest · 25/04/2023 16:03

Shelefttheweb · 25/04/2023 16:00

For those who say JG is off limits. Is this for everything at all times? So we shouldn’t comment on an internet video of JG commenting on a public figure? What about if JG was on prime time TV? Would we be allowed to comment on what they say if JG was appearing in front of a parliamentary committee? What about if they turned up at your school and spent a week promoting the use of puberty blockers? Or started giving out free samples courtesy of Gender GP? At what point are we allowed to comment on an adult who takes a public position? Isn’t this just another game of #NoDebate?

Well, quite. At fifteen, certainly. But they're now thirty, regardless of brain maturation (which will never happen).
A fully fledged adult who no longer needs protection, I'd have said?

Datun · 25/04/2023 16:04

Shelefttheweb · 25/04/2023 16:00

For those who say JG is off limits. Is this for everything at all times? So we shouldn’t comment on an internet video of JG commenting on a public figure? What about if JG was on prime time TV? Would we be allowed to comment on what they say if JG was appearing in front of a parliamentary committee? What about if they turned up at your school and spent a week promoting the use of puberty blockers? Or started giving out free samples courtesy of Gender GP? At what point are we allowed to comment on an adult who takes a public position? Isn’t this just another game of #NoDebate?

All I would like to point out is the possibility that you could be dealing with the mind of a 10-year-old, in the body of an adult, whose caregivers have let them down immeasurably.

'Fragile' probably doesn't do it justice. And no, it doesn't mean they can't be bloody unpleasant.

Beowulfa · 25/04/2023 16:06

I wonder if Jackie has ever met a happy, healthy gay man of the same age; one who describes how his parents weren't bothered when he was into dressing up and dolls, is cheerfully effeminate, and who enjoys a full sex life?

Cherrywoo · 25/04/2023 16:07

Datun · 25/04/2023 16:04

All I would like to point out is the possibility that you could be dealing with the mind of a 10-year-old, in the body of an adult, whose caregivers have let them down immeasurably.

'Fragile' probably doesn't do it justice. And no, it doesn't mean they can't be bloody unpleasant.

Yes, this.

Datun · 25/04/2023 16:08

Beowulfa · 25/04/2023 16:06

I wonder if Jackie has ever met a happy, healthy gay man of the same age; one who describes how his parents weren't bothered when he was into dressing up and dolls, is cheerfully effeminate, and who enjoys a full sex life?

Would a 10-12 year-old even care?

SpeedSnap · 25/04/2023 16:10

Cherrywoo · 25/04/2023 15:59

The skip past puberty bit was a reference to all those people who still seem to believe it’s a harmless pause to puberty.

It’s obvious to most (at least on here) that “pausing” puberty with dangerous, experimental drugs is catastrophically damaging to children, as Jackie proves. Susie Green has literally created an adult with special needs.

The indivuals, charities, political class, education, health and justice system should all be held to account. If they can't safeguard at work they can't un tbe home.

Jazz is a prime example of activist families inability to safeguard in any setting.

They are responsible for these Eugenics disabled hate crimes, be it a puberty blocked individual or Henrietta on Twitter - having men wash her fanny when she requested only women.

Shelefttheweb · 25/04/2023 16:10

Datun · 25/04/2023 16:04

All I would like to point out is the possibility that you could be dealing with the mind of a 10-year-old, in the body of an adult, whose caregivers have let them down immeasurably.

'Fragile' probably doesn't do it justice. And no, it doesn't mean they can't be bloody unpleasant.

If it were a ten year old with some celebrity and influence taking part in a public debate then I would still say it is reasonable to comment on their age, immaturity and what the message they are using their influence to spread.

nilsmousehammer · 25/04/2023 16:11

Absolute bloody tragedy, as is Jazz Jennings. When this has been sold as 'life saving' by their parents, that it was this or their child not surviving the illness of dysphoria, I suppose it should be less shocking to see them becomes adults who are continuing to obviously struggle with the damage and impact of this experimental treatment and are not going to have full, happy adult lives.

But it isn't. It's awful. And it again reinforces that there must surely be better ways to help a distressed child than this. And in both cases, the distress was in and from the family situation as well as the parents locating the need in the child for transition.

JolyGoodBloviator · 25/04/2023 16:13

The video and transcript is archived on the Mermaids thread over on Kiwi Farms.

The transcript is somehow more horrifying than the video.

Datun · 25/04/2023 16:14

We all know, that by and large, you go from eww boys, ugh! (or girls), to hmmm nice, to wow, yes purleese.

But that's only with the advent of puberty hormones. If you don't get them, are you still likely to be at the ugh boys stage?

Jackie was banging on about mentioning genitals being gross and commenting on sexual objectification with a learnt response (why are you even looking, eww).

it seems to me that Jackie doesn't know what Jackie has missed out on. And never will.

DialSquare · 25/04/2023 16:15

This is KJK's response. Very similar to the responses on here which is no surprise. Despite how others try to portray her.

Jackie Green reacts to KJK
ReadersD1gest · 25/04/2023 16:15

Datun · 25/04/2023 16:14

We all know, that by and large, you go from eww boys, ugh! (or girls), to hmmm nice, to wow, yes purleese.

But that's only with the advent of puberty hormones. If you don't get them, are you still likely to be at the ugh boys stage?

Jackie was banging on about mentioning genitals being gross and commenting on sexual objectification with a learnt response (why are you even looking, eww).

it seems to me that Jackie doesn't know what Jackie has missed out on. And never will.

it seems to me that Jackie doesn't know what Jackie has missed out on. And never will
That's as much a mercy as tragedy, at this point.

Datun · 25/04/2023 16:16

Shelefttheweb · 25/04/2023 16:10

If it were a ten year old with some celebrity and influence taking part in a public debate then I would still say it is reasonable to comment on their age, immaturity and what the message they are using their influence to spread.

I would still say it is reasonable to comment

I don't disagree, at all. And am commenting myself.

I just feel I'm not commenting about a healthy happy 30-year-old woman (or man).

potniatheron · 25/04/2023 16:16

JolyGoodBloviator · 25/04/2023 16:13

The video and transcript is archived on the Mermaids thread over on Kiwi Farms.

The transcript is somehow more horrifying than the video.

KF is doing god's work in this area. Most misunderstood website on the entire internet. Heading over there later.

Datun · 25/04/2023 16:16

JolyGoodBloviator · 25/04/2023 16:13

The video and transcript is archived on the Mermaids thread over on Kiwi Farms.

The transcript is somehow more horrifying than the video.

Thank you

MagicSpring · 25/04/2023 16:32

Adult trans children are no advert for transition. None.

I think Nikkie (hosting Eurovision, does/did make-up tutorials, child transitioner) comes across as pretty grounded.

ArabeIIaScott · 25/04/2023 16:41

Datun · 25/04/2023 16:16

Thank you

Ah, there you go. I am working through the transcript but hopefully someone else has fixed the errors and added tags already!

RadiantFem · 25/04/2023 16:41

This reply has been deleted

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ArabeIIaScott · 25/04/2023 16:46

C&P'd:

'Susie Green has retweeted John / Joss Prior saying that "Posie Parker just got zipped-up and thrown off a bridge by Jackie Green!", and that "Posie doesnt come off well against Jackie, neither intellectually or aesthetically!".'

VAWG, always. And the judgement on looks, of course.

RedToothBrush · 25/04/2023 16:50

Secondly, if we say that JG is vulnerable, it's actually hugely patronising. And tbh no other adults get a free pass to be dicks online (or anywhere in RL) because people think they're vulnerable. Prisons are FULL of vulnerable men and women. If we removed all vulnerable people from prison, they'd be empty save for a few fraudsters.

Jackie Green suffers from this weird infantilising thing that's going on with the TRA movement.

Jackie is 30 years old. Like Daniel Radcliffe is 33 years old. Like Prince Harry is 38.

What do theyhave in common? Their media persona / value is about their experience in their youth and this Peter Pan phenomena that springs from it.

I think that's fascinating in itself. They aren't young anymore. With youth the quality of innocence and vulnerability is intertwined. But in reality by the age of 30 we typically hold people responsible for their actions and mistakes and having had the benefit of time to outgrow the recklessness and vulnerability of their youth.

Women don't tend to get the same longevity of that innocence as they take on responsibility when they have children.

How does Jackie Green sit within that context as Jackie gets older? And is unable to have children? Forever a child in the minds of the public.

I note at this point that Jackie Greens existence in the public eye isn't for Jackie's benefit. It's always for Suzie. Suzie built a life, career and purpose around Jackie. Jackie's purpose in life is what exactly?

If Jackie rejects their identity, they reject their mother and discredit their mother.

That makes for a really difficult situation for Jackie once confronted with it. That Jackie has ANY doubts at this point is actually significant to me for this reason. It explains the vitriol in a sense - Jackie is presented with a choice of making their own peace with themselves and resolving what's going on OR accepting and supporting their mother and the purpose in life that Suzie decided FOR her child. A decision that normally a child makes for themselves rather than is imposed on them by a parent.

The reverse is true too. Attacking the ideology is a personal attack on Suzie Green the mother. Few people react well to personal attacks on their mother and it has to be seen in this context.

All whilst having taken puberty blockers which knock points off your IQ (thus potentially your ability to process and resolve some of these issues intellectually).

But clearly Jackie is questioning something, and that's the only exit route from the ideology.

Why is it uncomfortable to watch? Precisely because it puts responsibility on Jackie to take some adult responsibility and almost give a life update as to whether their transition has worked or not. Jackie has the power as an adult to stand up to mum and say this isn't cool, or to double down despite obvious self doubts that have crept in. Jackie isn't powerless at this point. Jackie is independent and not living with Suzie. Jackie doesn't want to take the responsibility of being the poster child and role model but can't say 'its all a pile of crap' either. Infantilising behavior is a way to avoid that dilemma, cos 'oh they are so vulnerable'. It's avoidance of stepping up and saying there is a problem. That's not simply vulnerability. That's being cowardly when you know you are being used to sell this to a bunch of new kids and you are fundamentally unhappy and still chasing the wind.

At what point should we deem Jackie to have responsibility? Or are we saying that Jackie lacks capacity - and therefore would be 'not guilt' by default if they committed a crime?

At 30, the concept of innocence and powerlessness over Jackie's own life, doesn't wash completely.

I feel terribly sorry for how Jackie is a victim, but Jackie's isn't 15 anymore either. Jackie could stop harm to others.