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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jackie Green reacts to KJK

302 replies

FisherthemsFriend · 25/04/2023 12:05

https://twitter.com/The_StateMedia/status/1650560961353248769

Above is a clipped version, highlighting the many times JG calls KJK a bitch. In the Twitter thread is JG’s original video.

I wasn’t sure whether to post this. Really the person to criticise is Susie Green, but at the same time JG is an adult and has publicly made a video using misogynistic language. Or does the background mean JG should be off-limits? Opinions welcome.

https://twitter.com/The_StateMedia/status/1650560961353248769

OP posts:
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12
Zeugma · 28/04/2023 09:42

I’m late to the discussion about audience capture but it’s fascinating. Coincidentally I caught a R4 programme presented by Helen Lewis a couple of weeks ago about this. She spoke to a woman who'd had an online presence as a 'clean eater' and became hugely popular, but found herself becoming ever more driven to be purer and purer.

Then one day she crumbled when having a meal with a friend and ate something 'forbidden' - I can’t remember what but something as innocent as cheese or a burger. She was absolutely destroyed online by her followers and ended up quitting the whole thing because she just couldn’t keep up with the impossible demands it placed on her to please them 100% of the time.

I do wonder how DM behaves when completely alone, maybe in the evenings where there’s no filming of promotional videos to be done but just the ordinary boring old night on your own with the telly for company. Skipping round the apartment in a ballgown done up to the nines, giggling and singing happy showtunes? Or maybe…..not?

ArabeIIaScott · 28/04/2023 10:14

JolyGoodBloviator · 28/04/2023 09:11

@PriOn1 - very thoughtful posts and I agree with lots of what you say Flowers

The video is available over on the KiwiFarms forum (thread is called Susie Green & Mermaids and it’s towards the end of the thread).

Not linking because mumsnet don’t like links to other talk boards (fair enough, why should they promote competitors) and the site is rather robust in language as it’s a free speech site so some posters just randomly type out words you’d be banned for everywhere else.

There is a transcript there too which is not totally accurate (the poster apologises in advance!) but gives a reasonable picture. If I have time later I might use that as a base and try and make a more accurate version to post here (perhaps with some of Jackie’s swearing asterisked!)

The current contrapoints thread is a good tandem read with this one.

I had started on a transcript, I can do half if you want to do the other half?

ColdMeg · 28/04/2023 10:45

This reminds me of something Vincent Furnier (Alice Cooper) once said in response to Marilyn Mason's claim that he actually 'was' his rock persona all the time.

Furnier said it was a stupid statement and impossible to live that way, that it wasn't realistic. He said that his Alice Cooper stage persona was just that, a persona, because "Alice Cooper" wasn't someone who could take his kids to Little League practice. He said that if you claim you are the persona all the time, it then controls you.

It strikes me that this is what has happened to JG and JJ. They have been defined as "trans" publicly from a very young age and now it confines them.

It's one of the aspects I find most concerning about the surgical and medical aspect of this ideology upon youth. You can't undo it. But people change and evolve like the wind as they go through life, as they gain experience.

I'm female, but I've been lots of different types of girl and woman throughout my life so far. "Identity", in my experience, is ever shifting, and trouble comes when you attempt to pin it down because you limit your ability to change how you respond to the world.

With these trans kids though, they are stamped with the trans identity very early on.

JolyGoodBloviator · 28/04/2023 11:09

ArabeIIaScott · 28/04/2023 10:14

I had started on a transcript, I can do half if you want to do the other half?

Sounds like a fair deal!

As you’ve started do you want to do the first half, divided from the midway point of the video? And I’ll do the second part and PM it to you so it can all be posted in one post?

Probs won’t get a chance until kids are in bed tonight tho!

JolyGoodBloviator · 28/04/2023 11:13

ColdMeg · 28/04/2023 10:45

This reminds me of something Vincent Furnier (Alice Cooper) once said in response to Marilyn Mason's claim that he actually 'was' his rock persona all the time.

Furnier said it was a stupid statement and impossible to live that way, that it wasn't realistic. He said that his Alice Cooper stage persona was just that, a persona, because "Alice Cooper" wasn't someone who could take his kids to Little League practice. He said that if you claim you are the persona all the time, it then controls you.

It strikes me that this is what has happened to JG and JJ. They have been defined as "trans" publicly from a very young age and now it confines them.

It's one of the aspects I find most concerning about the surgical and medical aspect of this ideology upon youth. You can't undo it. But people change and evolve like the wind as they go through life, as they gain experience.

I'm female, but I've been lots of different types of girl and woman throughout my life so far. "Identity", in my experience, is ever shifting, and trouble comes when you attempt to pin it down because you limit your ability to change how you respond to the world.

With these trans kids though, they are stamped with the trans identity very early on.

That’s fascinating.

I listen to Alice Cooper’s show on Planet Rock Radio late at night from time to time. He’s a fascinating chap with a really wide range of musical knowledge - definitely not a the one dimensional character that many imagine him to be.

https://planetradio.co.uk/planet-rock/shows/nights-with-alice-cooper/

Nights with Alice Cooper

Nights with Alice Cooper on Planet Rock

Catch the latest episodes from Nights with Alice Cooper. Listen again to your favourite episodes and keep up to date with the latest episodes.

https://planetradio.co.uk/planet-rock/shows/nights-with-alice-cooper/

ArabeIIaScott · 28/04/2023 11:24

JolyGoodBloviator · 28/04/2023 11:09

Sounds like a fair deal!

As you’ve started do you want to do the first half, divided from the midway point of the video? And I’ll do the second part and PM it to you so it can all be posted in one post?

Probs won’t get a chance until kids are in bed tonight tho!

Perfect! Yes, I'll just need to do it in between other stuff. Will let you know where I stop at roughly halfway.

MavisMcMinty · 28/04/2023 12:37

Thanks @JolyGoodBloviator and @ArabeIIaScott - I look forward to reading that, I watched about 20-30 mins of JG’s video but found the accent so distracting I had to stop, then it was deleted.

Ourladycheesusedatum · 28/04/2023 16:47

Wow, what a thread peeps. So many fabulous posts, insightful and profound.

I'm busy so haven't seen the jg video yet. I'll get to it over the weekend.

Every post pretty much resonates.

^ long winded placemark.

MavisMcMinty · 28/04/2023 17:48

I was looking at Susie Green’s Twitter, and she likes/retweets lots of the same stuff I would, from what I’ve seen it’s only the transitioning of children we disagree on. Conversely, I see abrasive right-wingers like Matt Walsh, with whom I agree ONLY on trans issues. Don’t think trans is necessarily a political “sides” issue, but it does make me question myself.

stealtheatingtunnocks · 29/04/2023 03:46

Is there a way of directing me to kiwi farms that is allowed? When I google I find articles about it being shut down and I can’t find it anywhere

WomanXXWorldsOriginsofMothersofAllNations · 29/04/2023 04:48

You’re almost there with kiwi farms (no spaces) and it’s a dot net address then just use the search function using key words susie green mermaids

EdgeOfACoin · 29/04/2023 05:53

Btw, Kiwi Farms is not a forum I would hang out on at all. I literally just went there for the transcript.

EdgeOfACoin · 29/04/2023 06:06

MavisMcMinty · 28/04/2023 17:48

I was looking at Susie Green’s Twitter, and she likes/retweets lots of the same stuff I would, from what I’ve seen it’s only the transitioning of children we disagree on. Conversely, I see abrasive right-wingers like Matt Walsh, with whom I agree ONLY on trans issues. Don’t think trans is necessarily a political “sides” issue, but it does make me question myself.

If you haven't already, look up Jamie Reed, a woman who used to work at a gender clinic, helping with the transitioning of children.

She describes herself as a queer left-winger who is married to a transman. She's based in Missouri (I believe).

She has since whistle blown on the clinic she used to work for and is now deeply concerned about the practice of transitioning children. She did a good interview on Triggernometry and an even more in-depth one on The Free Press (a channel I know nothing about but the interview with Jamie was very good). Both interviews are available on YouTube.

You may find it easier to listen to someone like her than someone like Matt Walsh.

FannyCann · 29/04/2023 07:48

stealtheatingtunnocks · 29/04/2023 03:46

Is there a way of directing me to kiwi farms that is allowed? When I google I find articles about it being shut down and I can’t find it anywhere

You might find it helpful to use a different search engine. Google does the same to me but safari links straight there.

BeverlyBrook · 29/04/2023 09:12

Jazz Jennings Jackie Green, are their mums related? Susie Green ran Mermaids charity, yes?

Needmoresleep · 29/04/2023 09:40

stealtheatingtunnocks · 29/04/2023 03:46

Is there a way of directing me to kiwi farms that is allowed? When I google I find articles about it being shut down and I can’t find it anywhere

Try searching with a specific name...like kiwifarms Farrow or kiwifarms Mermaids.

This then filters out the general articles.

EdgeOfACoin · 29/04/2023 11:52

I searched Kiwi Farms Mermaids and found it. Transcript is on page 87.

TheBiologyStupid · 29/04/2023 12:23

EdgeOfACoin · 29/04/2023 06:06

If you haven't already, look up Jamie Reed, a woman who used to work at a gender clinic, helping with the transitioning of children.

She describes herself as a queer left-winger who is married to a transman. She's based in Missouri (I believe).

She has since whistle blown on the clinic she used to work for and is now deeply concerned about the practice of transitioning children. She did a good interview on Triggernometry and an even more in-depth one on The Free Press (a channel I know nothing about but the interview with Jamie was very good). Both interviews are available on YouTube.

You may find it easier to listen to someone like her than someone like Matt Walsh.

The Free Press was launched by Bari Weiss after she left The New York Times. It was behind the Witch Trials of JK Rowling podcast series IIRC.

Boiledbeetle · 29/04/2023 14:08

BeverlyBrook · 29/04/2023 09:12

Jazz Jennings Jackie Green, are their mums related? Susie Green ran Mermaids charity, yes?

I do wonder if they are related sometimes! They are so similar! And yes Susie Green was the one who ran Mermaids! Before she was fired!

I'm wondering how much her being fired caused Jackie to start questioning things.

SpeedSnap · 29/04/2023 16:21

It is often said on here that there is a special place in hell for some.

Dante would have Mrs Jennings in the 9th layer for Treachery against family and country - for pushing the ideology on others and ruing a nation.

Dante would place Teachers, Charities, cops, politicianshealth worker types in the 8th layer for fraud - pretending to be something one is not, falsifying words, sowing scandals that harm, giving bad advice, pimping out service users.

The non righteous angry will be in the 5th layer.

PriOn1 · 30/04/2023 06:32

I’ve read the transcript now. Very struck by the fact that the father is ultimately delighted to have a transitioned child. Much more acceptable than an effeminate (and possibly gay) son, I suspect, though in a healthier, more truthful household, a similarly bigoted father might eventually have learned to accept his son, as he was.

Really though, I don’t know whether Jackie will ever be able to see that the hoops that had to be jumped through to gain acceptance from a father who should have loved his child unconditionally, are everything to do with the wish of a very small boy that things had been different and that it might have been better to have been born female.

Those who have transitioned MtF regularly seem to describe their memories of “always having known” and assume the bullying came because they “were trans”. What they willfully ignore (because it goes against the message they have been telling themselves) is the fact that the parental bullying is probably the root cause of that false conviction. The bullying started as soon as the “unacceptable behaviour” occurred, which is almost certainly before the child understood what sex is, far less understandood what sex they themselves were and how their personal behaviour patterns fitted in with societal or parental biases. And that conclusion was almost certainly drawn before the child could communicate enough to have a discussion to clarify any of it.

My daughter demonstrated an unwillingness to wear feminine clothes before she could talk. She told me with her body language and actions.

Some children working out who they are in that atmosphere of disapproval might come to understand their parent is the problem and not their sex, but others might take the more beguiling path: that their parent cannot be wrong, and therefore somehow nature must have made a mistake. The latter is actually the easier pathway in the short term, with a child’s complete lack understanding of the bounds of reality or long term consequences.

Given the omniscience that a very small child generally credits their parents with at that age, I can see how easy it would be for that conclusion to be drawn.

And having drawn it, and told that parent your thoughts, then the same parent belittles and bullies you for the conclusion you drew. In the growing understanding that your parent doesn’t really like you, it is a natural response to reject what they are now saying. Thus you come to see your ongoing experience of wishing you were the opposite sex/believing your brain is wrong, in the face of that rejection, as being proof of how strong your conviction must have been, to continue with it, in the face of that disapproval.

But of course the child only remembers the latter part: feeling that conviction in the face of the disapproval he now recognizes. He doesn’t recall that it was the same disapproval that caused him to draw the false conclusion because he has no clear memory of that time at all.

Shelefttheweb · 30/04/2023 13:48

I’ve read the transcript now. Very struck by the fact that the father is ultimately delighted to have a transitioned child. Much more acceptable than an effeminate (and possibly gay) son, I suspect, though in a healthier, more truthful household, a similarly bigoted father might eventually have learned to accept his son, as he was.

I presume you mean Susie Green’s Ted talk? In which case we have to be careful to consider who is talking. The need to spin the past to fit the narrative extends beyond Jackie themselves.

DerekFaker · 30/04/2023 13:51

Shelefttheweb · 30/04/2023 13:48

I’ve read the transcript now. Very struck by the fact that the father is ultimately delighted to have a transitioned child. Much more acceptable than an effeminate (and possibly gay) son, I suspect, though in a healthier, more truthful household, a similarly bigoted father might eventually have learned to accept his son, as he was.

I presume you mean Susie Green’s Ted talk? In which case we have to be careful to consider who is talking. The need to spin the past to fit the narrative extends beyond Jackie themselves.

No Jackie's.

Shelefttheweb · 30/04/2023 14:20

DerekFaker · 30/04/2023 13:51

No Jackie's.

An thanks, I got confused. Still the same point stands - history gets reinterpreted to fit the narrative. And ‘memories’ of yourself as a very young child are often heavily influenced by what you have been told about that time or photos you are shown as well as what you considered normal.

ArabeIIaScott · 30/04/2023 18:00

Apologies re the transcript, btw, I made a start on Friday but haven't had time this weekend to finish it off. It's quite tricky to do as there are three different people speaking! Will get it done eventually.

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