Would you ever consider a transwoman a woman?

[ZeldaFighter]

If a person had transitioned from male to female early in life and had lived quietly and unobtrusively as a woman for say 20 or 30 years, would you consider offering that person the status of "womanhood"?

Would you go on a girls night in a group with them?

Would you think differently if the person had had gender reassignment surgery?

What if they did actually pass?

What if they had a husband and kids?

This isn't a gotcha and I don't know the answers. I am instinctively annoyed by the taking away of women's things but I am also dismayed by the hurt and harm potentially caused to trans people. I'm trying to decide my own position and wondering if there are compromise positions. Apologies if this has been asked before and thank you for your thoughts.

That's easy, if they are a transwoman they are male and therefore not a woman but a man. There is no need for this conversation to be a daily feature of anyone's life as long as women's boundaries are respected.

Women refusing to accept TWAW does not mean we don't accept that TWATW and should be able to live their life peacefully just like anyone else.

Yes of course, I'm not a bigot.

They deserve to live their life how they wish. But the life experience can't be thesame as a woman's in various unavoidable ways. Likewise the life experience of a woman can't be identical to a trans woman, so whilst they may share many sensibilities they just can't be the same, regardless of how much anyone might want to be cross at anyone for acknowledging that.
All people should live and let live free from harassment, putting one group down at the expense of another, or vindictive attitudes. If everyone did that this whole debate would be a none issue.

I have been a feminist since I wondered why there were never any girls in Sci fi and fantasy and then read "What Society Does to Girls". I support all women to be their best and succeed in the world, although apart from lecturing my family, I don't do much!

Hi Bathhy

Can I just ask as someone who is trans what your take on the militant trans supporters is.

I am talking about the ones who attacked Riley gains or who are stopping women speaking.

Do you agree with their stance that trans women are women and should be treated 100% as women in all areas of life including competitive sport and female safe spaces or do you think more like caitlyn jenner appears to which is that trans women should live their best lives as trans women but not at the expense of women's rights.

Not spoiling for a fight - genuinely interested in your opinion.

No. Not ever. Never in a month of Sundays.

I would respect the way they life their life but I would always consider them a trans woman.

I would welcome that person as a friend. I would call them, her/she and by her new name. However she isn't a female to me. She will always be a man who wishes to be a woman.

No.

couldnt even if I tried. I can tell sex and have done since I was about 6 weeks old.

id be polite but I’d never see a male person as being the same as me and I’d hope he wouldn’t bring it up in conversation or go to my loo.

Yes

They do. You notice the ones who don't pass so you think none of them do but they do. Used to work for the vice squad and I can tell you I've seen punters vomiting when they finally believe the police officer who is telling them that the prostitute providing a service was actually a man. I've also heard a police woman scream when she was searching someone and found something she wasn't expecting.

I would agree with this statement. I would consider them a transwoman, different from a woman, but equally deserving of respect and happiness in their life.

Biologically they are male and always will be because that's the way the human body is but I would use she/her or they/them pronouns out of basic politeness and acknowledgement of their preferences.

In terms of health services, sports etc. Where there are clashes between women's and transwomen's rights I believe that they shouldn't be treated the same but should have separate provisions

I also believe that there needs to be better early access to mental health services for people with dysphoria and a lot more research into the phenomena as there are clearly links and issues (detransitioners, the high amount females with autism transitioning etc.) That needs further exploration

To me in an ideal world people would be able to live, dress and call themselves what they like without the idea of gender and without having to resort to surgery to change their bodies but that doesn't mean that I agree with the hate that is thrown at the trans community (particularly on this site)

And what are your own thoughts on the question, Bathhy? Do you think you are a woman?

If you do, I wonder if you could explain what you take the word 'woman' to mean. Is it somehow to do with stereotypes, that is, gender; or is it connected with something like a soul, separable from one's (sexed) body; or something else, and if so, what?

Of course you may not be able to define 'woman' in any precise way. If so, I (and I'm sure others) would nevertheless like to read some sort of explanation of what you take it to mean.

Thanks for engaging.

[My own answer to OP, for the record: no.]

Looking at it another way, if I found out a friend was not a woman but a transwoman, I wouldn't drop them.

So yes, I would happily socialise with a transwoman, but I wouldn't consider them a woman. I think it might be hard to have a proper female friendship with a transwoman based on where I am now - I don't spend my whole time with friends talking about female bodies, but I have definitely discussed birth injuries, hormones, period issues, pregnancy, post partum, socialisation and irritating stereotypes with my closest female friends and I don't know that I would do that with a trans woman or how I would do so truthfully and honestly if that person was not willing to accept that they were not female.

Yes trans women are women

@ZeldaFighter how would he be living as a woman? How does one live like a woman as opposed to a man?

KF absolutely do not see transwomen as women, and they're far less polite about it.

you can't regard yourself as a feminist and vote a mysogynist into no 10!

You have to help stop this shite and if Labour relies on people like you to vote Labour despite this nonsense it won't halt it.

Kier needs to know he WONT get feminists votes however much they want this tory rabble out of office.

No.

No I would consider them a transwoman, which is in itself nothing to be ashamed of or to attempt to shun in the pursuit of denying biological reality and calling them a woman; they should be proud of who they are and i think the rabid TWAW is actually harmful to achieving this. Yes of course I'd go on a night out or whatever else with them!

No.

No

If transwomen are women why are they called transwomen? What makes them trans? I find the whole subject weirdly illogical.

No