Would you ever consider a transwoman a woman?

[ZeldaFighter]

If a person had transitioned from male to female early in life and had lived quietly and unobtrusively as a woman for say 20 or 30 years, would you consider offering that person the status of "womanhood"?

Would you go on a girls night in a group with them?

Would you think differently if the person had had gender reassignment surgery?

What if they did actually pass?

What if they had a husband and kids?

This isn't a gotcha and I don't know the answers. I am instinctively annoyed by the taking away of women's things but I am also dismayed by the hurt and harm potentially caused to trans people. I'm trying to decide my own position and wondering if there are compromise positions. Apologies if this has been asked before and thank you for your thoughts.

Such a waste of money.

That's giving such unrealistic expectations. I wonder how high the true complication rate is for these genital surgeries? I've seen photos of the outcomes on reddit, and even people happy with the outcome seem to need a number of revision surgeries and are tolerating scarring, fistulae, leakage etc

And the NHS is paying for that?

What a waste of money indeed...!

Why is it not OK to see transwomen as transwomen? Why are they so keen to say they're exactly the same as women?

The NHS pays for that?? Good grief 🙄

validation and control
both are non negotiable

Yes, we're all funding it. I think it should be seen similar to cosmetic surgery.

Cosmetic surgery can be occasionally done on the NHS in exceptional circumstances, I think it should be the same for these surgeries.

We know how difficult it is for women to get breast reduction surgery even when the breasts are causing severe pain/backache/postural problems. And flat chested women certainly aren't being offered augmentations.

If a person had transitioned from male to female early in life and had lived quietly and unobtrusively as a woman for say 20 or 30 years, would you consider offering that person the status of "womanhood"? Yes.

Would you go on a girls night in a group with them? Yes.

Would you think differently if the person had had gender reassignment surgery? Not in the business of thinking about my friends' genitals.

What if they did actually pass?
What if they had a husband and kids?
As someone who worked with a trans woman (married to a man) for a few weeks before knowing she was trans - yep.

Ultimately, I think there are vanishingly few 'man decides he's a woman to gain access to women's spaces'. I don't profess to have answers for what to do about that. But I do know a fair few trans men and women who largely transitioned in their early 20s and live unobtrusive, normal lives, and (with the exception of one friend who I knew pretransition) I haven't made an active decision to 'see' them as a man/woman. My brain just automatically did it. With the friend I knew pre-transition it took a bit longer, but only because I'd always known him before.

It's lovely you want to 'offer' a male person 'the status of womanhood'.

But what you mean is that you personally are privileged enough to use mixed sex spaces with males if they're males you personally feel ok with, and are prioritising your lovely feelz of kindness over caring about the females who cannot and whom that male will exclude with their presence.

Have a third space. Pee and strip off with whatever males float your boat. Offer them whatever you choose. Have a lovely time. But ffs stop excluding women so that you can pander to people with penises.

A million times this. I am heartily sick of women who are determined to give away other women's rights, needs and wants.

Quite right. Women's spaces are not yours to give away.

No for the sane reason I would not consider a child in a dog costume as an actual dog. Pretend does not equal is. HTH.

No for the sane reason I would not consider a child in a dog costume as an actual dog.

Talking about the NHS funding gender reassignment surgery.
I watched an interview yesterday with KJK. In it she mentioned that the Chelsea and Westminister hospital has a clinic providing this service.

I don't know if this is widely known or if it's a new development.

Yep.

Go where you want with whom you want. Enjoy.

Leave women and kids out of it.

No, never.

Would I be respectful, kind, chatty with them? Yep, I'd treat them as a human being.

Would I believe they are a woman? Bestow womanhood status upon them? No.

No.

TWAM.

#NoThankYou

TWAM

Not women.

Not ever.

Not even if they really really want to be.

I don't think I'd ever say TWAM personally, though I can see where people come from who do feel this way.

I agree with @StellaAndCrow's take.
TW are TW and that shouldn't be offensive in the slightest.
If anything surely that should be more validating of their "lived experience" and struggles?

It's a no from trans widows.

I'm curious how you see TW as being different from other males?

I don't mean to be offensive, btw, that is a genuine question. What makes someone a transwoman?

They are men.

Why do they need a new category?