Would you ever consider a transwoman a woman?

[ZeldaFighter]

If a person had transitioned from male to female early in life and had lived quietly and unobtrusively as a woman for say 20 or 30 years, would you consider offering that person the status of "womanhood"?

Would you go on a girls night in a group with them?

Would you think differently if the person had had gender reassignment surgery?

What if they did actually pass?

What if they had a husband and kids?

This isn't a gotcha and I don't know the answers. I am instinctively annoyed by the taking away of women's things but I am also dismayed by the hurt and harm potentially caused to trans people. I'm trying to decide my own position and wondering if there are compromise positions. Apologies if this has been asked before and thank you for your thoughts.

I think that a lot of young people have been groomed to believe the absolute lie that if you just take opposite-sex hormones then somehow magic happens. Even the NHS website talks about constructing a vagina or penis. Not about constructing a ‘vagina’ or ‘penis’ in quote marks. These things are talked of like they are actually real. It’s no wonder that some kids are taken in by the idea.

I was in a shop at the weekend and behind the counter serving me was a bearded transman. Very obviously not a man- too small in build and stature and wrong physique for a man, the beard hair was too soft and they had an unnatural (for a man) clearly non-male voice.

I felt really sorry for this young person for the massive con that they’ve been taken for. I cant know what they will think about it all but when they are older, but their likely (and completely avoidable) feelings of betrayal and loss are very sad to think of. I’m not saying that because I think it’s easy being a young woman, just because I think the cognitive dissonance of pretending not to be a young woman must be really exhausting, with a very hard road ahead of you.

Here under ‘surgery for adults’: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/

I’ve heard of young ‘transboys’ who assumed that breasts could be regrown post mastectomy because ‘transgirls’ could grow ‘breasts’ via taking exogenous estrogen.
Which sounds far fetched until you consider that there is a generation who are being taught that ‘men can get pregnant too’ and that ‘menstruating people can be of any gender’.
😬

I think that a lot of young people have been groomed to believe the absolute lie that if you just take opposite-sex hormones then somehow magic happens. Even the NHS website talks about constructing a vagina or penis. Not about constructing a ‘vagina’ or ‘penis’ in quote marks. These things are talked of like they are actually real. It’s no wonder that some kids are taken in by the idea.

Yes, the NHS website really does make it look easy to change your sex!

I too feel sorry for young people being groomed to believe that this is actually possible. And sad that they feel unsupported in their actual sex.

I’m just waiting for the litigation to start.
how many of these young people will get to adulthood and realise not only are they not the opposite sex, but infertile, have bone issues. It has to come eventually.

I sometimes wonder if this might be the thing that finally takes the NHS down because there have to be some big lawsuits coming in the next couple of years.

I’ve said before, this will be the new thalidomide.

Or the contaminated blood scandal.

Plus, at least if they transition young they won’t want to be taking part in Women’s sport.

I agree. This is a nightmare for the future.

I fear that this is so. I am desperately trying to see something changing sooner, to stop further terrible health consequences from happening. But the forces against that are still incredibly strong.

You can't 'consider' someone a woman. They just either are or they're not. It's not an opinion, it's a biological fact.

Litigation will start. I know someone involved with the huge number of complaints about the fact SRS leaves a high number of people (m & f) single or double incontenant. Not so sexy!

It’s not quite thalidomide or contaminated blood - the problems have been known and they have carried on anyway.

its mutilating and sterilising children for profit. Grotesque. There are people who need to be jailed.

Shit. Just got my post deleted. Not sure why. Just reflecting on the sincere beliefs of some young people who seemed very confused about reality.

Lots of deletions and bans for telling the truth.

A weary reminder that 'misgendering' may still get a deletion. Despite the fact we're all grown adults and there's nothing wrong with correctly observing someone's sex.

We can call 'males' 'males'. But the word 'men' can sometimes attract a report.

2023, FML.

No. TWATW.

No, never have and never will.

I hope it does not take the NHS down - the people who thought up this nonsense should pay, not the rest of us.

or recovered/false memory syndrome
or the Dalkon Shield scandal a women's IUD contraceptive that caused 10s of thousands of miscarriages. Descibed by some as "an instrument of torture".
or the lobotomy and electro shock expermiments
or all the doctors working for tobacco companies to suppress/disprove the link between cancer and cigarettes

History is full of medical and therapy fads based on beliefs not scientific methods. And it keeps happening. The current sterilization of gay kids is no different and won't be the last.

I think ECT is still given on occasion, isn’t it? I saw it as a student nurse 40 years ago, and it cured the patient’s catatonia.

Yes, ECT is approved by NICE for limited conditions, including catatonia: https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ta59/chapter/1-Guidance

OxyContin too. I recommend watching Dopesick.

Thanks slothtoes. That's shocking for official NHS info - it makes it sound so straightforward.

Gender surgery for trans men includes:

• construction of a penis (phalloplasty or metoidioplasty)
• construction of a scrotum (scrotoplasty) and testicular implants
• a penile implant

Removal of the womb (hysterectomy) and the ovaries and fallopian tubes (salpingo-oophorectomy) may also be considered.

• removal of both breasts (bilateral mastectomy) and associated chest reconstruction
• nipple repositioning
• dermal implant and tattoo

Gender surgery for transwomen includes:

• removal of the testes (orchidectomy)
• removal of the penis (penectomy)
• construction of a vagina (vaginoplasty)
• construction of a vulva (vulvoplasty)
• construction of a clitoris (clitoroplasty)

I mean - construction of a clitoris!!