Would you ever consider a transwoman a woman?

[ZeldaFighter]

If a person had transitioned from male to female early in life and had lived quietly and unobtrusively as a woman for say 20 or 30 years, would you consider offering that person the status of "womanhood"?

Would you go on a girls night in a group with them?

Would you think differently if the person had had gender reassignment surgery?

What if they did actually pass?

What if they had a husband and kids?

This isn't a gotcha and I don't know the answers. I am instinctively annoyed by the taking away of women's things but I am also dismayed by the hurt and harm potentially caused to trans people. I'm trying to decide my own position and wondering if there are compromise positions. Apologies if this has been asked before and thank you for your thoughts.

WON’T SOMEONE THINK OF THE MEN??

When a cis girl or indeed a girl who does not identify as cis has a neovagina fashioned, yes it's still 'fake' but it's a replacement for what went wrong in the developmental process. Of course she's allowed at the doctors and it's a massively shitty thing to in any way suggest otherwise, or use someone with this sort of traumatic birth issue to try and justify men invading women's spaces.

TW do not get PMS, some similarities does not make it PMS. It's pre-MENSTRUAL syndrome so of course TW can't get that as they can never menstruate. They also don't have the responses from the other body parts which they don't have. All humans experience differing hormone levels at various stages of their life so fluctuating hormone levels do not make someone a woman. Rubbing fake hormones on yourself does not make you a woman any more than my rubbing fake hormone on myself makes me 30 again.

Oh man, just wait til people hear about Reggie Dwight and Stefani Germanotta!

Deception! Deception everywhere!

By her standards, yes. Which is why it's so hypocritical.

If they have a vagina they are a woman imo.

She has never pretended to be a man - she has used a male name when writing and the reason for that has been explained upthread. It’s very different from the wider deception shown by men who do pretend to be women in everything they do - which I’m sure you’ve worked out.

I've said it before but I'll say it again just for you.

I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

Except she didn't, did she? She pretended she didn't write the books. She pretended the books were written by a man called Robert. Who is (a) a different person, and (b) doesn't exist. That's not the same as pretending she is Robert, in fact it's literally the entirely opposite thing.

Newsflash: writers of fiction make things up.

Now, if you want to get into the ethics of an author pretending they didn't write a book for commercial/branding reasons (very common) then go for it. It's an interesting take. It's definitely relevant to the social construction of gender and the limitations that puts on female authors.

But it's got the square root of fuck all to do with trans people's claims to be/live as the opposite sex.

So what if you didn't know it was the same person. Does it matter?

And again writing under a different name is something authors have done for a very long time.

Why do you have such an issue with this?

And no it's not taking anything away from male writers. Most people who read a lot on looking at books by unknown authors buy a book based on the blurb about its contents not based on the assumed sex of the writer.

NO 😁

Oh! I think @hotdiggetydog read and enjoyed the Strike series and had to self-flagellate when it all became apparent that it was actually JKR. They do seem rather upset that he didn’t know it was the same person.

(*pronouns assumed. I’m not sure what pronouns hot dogs usually have and I’m taking it on face that they are in fact a hot dog. It would be deceptive otherwise).

@CountZacular that would make sense, more sense than assuming you could tell someone's gender identity from their first name certainly...

It does seem that way. I mean if you liked JKR and liked the Strike books and then discovered it was your favourite author you'd be happy.

If you hated an author but then discovered you'd bought and enjoyed and recommended that authors books that they wrote under a different name I suppose then you'd be angry. Maybe even come across a little irrational?

I'm not entirely sure how you would sex a hot dog. Aren't they an amalgamation of literally hundreds of both sexes of..... I want to say pig, but realised i have no clue as to which animal they are made out of. I mean i know it's all the gross bits that they have to boil down and scrape off the bones and that they can't put into any other product but as to which animals those bones being to???

If you hated an author but then discovered you'd bought and enjoyed and recommended that authors books that they wrote under a different name I suppose then you'd be angry. Maybe even come across a little irrational?

On this point, there have been several posts on this thread where people claim to not have known that transwomen were male until the male had told them so.

I think one of the stories was an alleged relationship where deception had taken place.

Now I'd be pretty pissed off if someone did that to me. It's deception. I'd struggle to be friends with a person who lied to me from the outset about who they were.

I like to deal in truth. I think this is what bothers me so much about trans women. They are lying to gain access. Without a care in the world about the feelings of the females who are displaced or harmed by their lies.

Hotdiggedydog claims that there are poor male authors harmed by the nom de plume. We all know that this is untrue. Hotdiggedy simply hates women and is practicing men's rights activism. Women can't take steps to combat sexism but men can take steps to invade womens' spaces.

Never heard of this dog idiot but sounds best ignored as a jealous twat not fit to wipe JK Rowlings boots.

Men like this are so sad so tiny penis and so tiresome

I suppose he's got his Twitter mysogynists and hand maidens following his sad little arse too.

Poor love traumatised by a sucessful glittering woman. 😂😂😂👍

Harms no one other than the community of male authors trying to make a living under their own sex.

I think they'll cope just fine...

Why? Are there only a certain number of male authors allowed to be published and she took a spot on the writing team?

Did she win male author of the year and take their trophy?

Are men so horrified that a woman wrote as a man that all male authors have downed tools and refused to write again?

In what possible way has JKR writing as Robert galbraith harmed male authors? Enlighten us

So you wouldn't read a crime novel if it was written by a woman and feel violated

Gotchya

This thread reminds me of a time myself and some friends went out in Brighton and were in a pub one evening.

This absolutely stunning individual came in and went to the bar. Asian, long hair, amazing figure and beautiful clothes

The men lost their shit and were practically queuing up for her with their tongues hanging out.

My friends and I just watched in amusement wondering if we should tell them that's a man before someone goes too far

The lady boys of Bangkok were in town on tour.

Hotdiggedydog claims that there are poor male authors harmed by the nom de plume. We all know that this is untrue. Hotdiggedy simply hates women and is practicing men's rights activism. Women can't take steps to combat sexism but men can take steps to invade women's spaces.

I totally agree. It’s as plain as day.

The misogyny comes through so clearly.

Would I include them in a girls night out... depends... if I like them as a person and they get along with everyone.. sure.

Would I consider them a woman? No. They are a man who transitioned at live as a woman, a transwoman. My opinions and beliefs with regards to this are and always will be scientifically based.

Poor creatures, it’s always been such a disadvantage to be a male writer, there are so few of them compared to the harridan hordes wielding their word processors all over the media and publishing in general.
Same as being a male athlete, businessman, astronaut or master criminal. Med don’t have a chance these days.

Men! Not med.

Ok so bookshelves fine, bathrooms not. I get it.