Would you ever consider a transwoman a woman?

[ZeldaFighter]

If a person had transitioned from male to female early in life and had lived quietly and unobtrusively as a woman for say 20 or 30 years, would you consider offering that person the status of "womanhood"?

Would you go on a girls night in a group with them?

Would you think differently if the person had had gender reassignment surgery?

What if they did actually pass?

What if they had a husband and kids?

This isn't a gotcha and I don't know the answers. I am instinctively annoyed by the taking away of women's things but I am also dismayed by the hurt and harm potentially caused to trans people. I'm trying to decide my own position and wondering if there are compromise positions. Apologies if this has been asked before and thank you for your thoughts.

Knowing more about agp than I ever wanted to. No.
I would want them to have as nice a life as they could, I hope they suffer no discrimination, I hope they live full lives. But I think they are and always will be trans women.

I wouldnt invite them to a party/girls night.
Surgery shouldnt be the ball park and would make no difference to me.
None pass, I do not believe the pps saying we just dont know. We do know. We can spot men in a crowded room. We are taught by mens actions from an early age to be careful around men.

I hope having a husband and children makes them happy.

Agp is a fetish, a fetish that means they feel aroused that they are thought of as women. I don't consent to being involved even peripherally. I will not be a part of someone elses fetish.

No, and I might have been more respectful 5 years ago, but I'd struggle with that now too, due to trans activism. For that reason I'd be unable to enjoy their company on a night out.

I am almost certain that I wouldn’t be on a girls night out as I couldn’t be friends with someone that I have views so clearly misaligned with.

Single s3x is single sex of course. I'm not so much of a prude I can't write sex!

Should have added, I don't agree with self ID or with transitioning for children. Tbh I don't think anyone should transition till at least 21. Sometimes it's just teenage angst, and not coping with puberty. There's a lot of reach the brain isn't fully formed till adulthood.

I think when a 3 year old says "I want to be [opposite sex]" its really because they don't like gender roles eg a boy likes pink, wants to learn ballet and play with dolls and unicorns. Which is fine, they can do all that. Doesn't mean they should take powerful drugs and be influenced by Mermaids.

Unless K was a virgin when they met, and is also either visually impaired or a bit dim, I do not believe this.

SRS vaginas do not look like real vaginas. They are very often very scarred, strange looking, and the TW with them suffer from health problems related to them, especially urinary tract problems.

There are also many many other obvious signs - -arm length, hand size, gait, hips, head size, throat, voice...I could go on.

I have seen many many TW. None pass. Some are quite impressive i.e Lux Pascal.

Some TW can look good in photos, but when you see them walking, speaking, and see their body language it's definitely off.

That's so overused now. And it's not being bigoted to understand a man cannot become a woman. It's common sense.

I'd understand them identifying as a woman and I'd be happy to address them as that but not as a biological woman.

Hi forgotmyusername1.

I am talking about the ones who attacked Riley gains or who are stopping women speaking.

people shouldn't be hurting people over politics but I think it's very unfair to expect trans people to be polite while having healthcare and right taken away from them which has been happening in America. Do you just expect trans people to politely ask for it back? I think it comes down to “for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction”. A lot of Republicans in America are saying a lot of extreme things about trans people and what should be done with them so of course trans people are going to react.

I could go on about this a lot longer because I don't think it's as easy as black and white, good and bad I think it's a multi-faceted issue of militancy in politics.
Politics does affect people's lives so of course people are going to be very militant about their own lives specifically when laws are past that directly affect them

The reason I'm bringing up America in my reply is that the Riley Gains incident happened at an American University.

"Do you agree with their stance that trans women are women"
Yes, I do.

female safe spaces

Yes, I do believe that trans women should be allowed to access female safe spaces due to the fact that trans women often do face misogyny and abuse at the hands of men.

including competitive sport

I've never been into sports so I don't know the answer but anecdotally I can say after about a year and a half on HRT, I did become significantly weaker than my male peers but I believe that this should be researched more and left to the governing bodies of the sport to decide if trans people can participate and which league they should participate in.

Nope, I'd consider them a trans woman and accord them all due respect that go with that, including addressing them as their desired name/pronouns and standing up for their rights to present how they like. Just because I recognise that a biological man can never become a woman doesn't mean I am inherently a mean person that wants to cause harm.

But, if I were close enough friends with them to go on a girls night with them, then I would probably just consider them as themselves, "Jane" or whatever their name is.

This is so true. Well meaning women have been pushed too far. Look what 'be kind' has gotten us? Our spaces colonised by men seeking validation.

Also, the idea of 'passing' or not bothers me - it's basically, has this man had more plastic surgery, hair extensions, make up etc. than the next guy. So what, he's still a man playing a role.

All the while women have been arguing for years that we should not need to look a certain way (i.e. fit into feminine stereotypes) to be deemed acceptable.

This, succinct and true

But what does that even mean? How does one identify as a woman?

@Bathhy but if you allow males into female safe spaces they are no longer female safe spaces are they? They’re then mixed sex spaces. If males with a trans identity are unsafe in male spaces, how is that womens problem? That’s something for males to work out isn’t it?

Ever been tricked to go out on a date with a transwoman and too scared to just leave?
I have.
Ever been forced to apologize to two (male gay) transwomen ( for generally joking; ' who wants to be a man' )or be thrown out of your Lesbian social group?
I have.
Ever heard a ( female attracted)transwoman chant ' I got my peenie cut off' in your Lesbian group and later boast about the girls she picked up at a bar .
I have.

I am positively sick of men whether same-sex or opposite sex attracted, with penis or without, forcing their way into women's lives.
No to them all.

You realise Riley Gaines was punched and held hostage for simply saying women’s sport should be for women right?

And you’re ok with that?

Its misogynistic men using this an excuse to abuse women.

Thank you for your response.

What is your opinion on self id and people no longer being required to be demonstrably trans in order to access women's spaces?

I think as someone above said - women have been turning a blind eye to trans women in their spaces for a long time. The issue of self id and violent trans activism has created a lot more women saying enough. For every action there is a reaction as you rightly say

Never

Of course I'd go on a night out with them. But they'd still be a man. You cannot change sex.

This. Well put.

I have met trans people who would pass. The fact that you think nobody passes is that you don't even notice the ones that do. People can get into very embarrassing situations with assumptions. I worked with a woman who was really tall with a very solid build, not fat just big. There was some gossip that she was a trans woman but she was in full possession of a set of XX chromosomes and was the mother of two children.

My view is that if people want to consider themselves women, we should let them have at it. After all, they'll putting up with all that business about being judged on their appearance, all that messing about with hair and makeup, the risk of being sexually assaulted by men, the gender pay gap, mansplaining, doing more housework etc.

I think the only exception should be competitive women's sports because that's simply not fair.

@Bathhy so it's fine for Riley Gaines to be assaulted because she doesn't agree TWAW and wants to fight to protect her sport?
Why should women give up their safe spaces to men? Which is what transwomen are. Like that or not, if you were born a male, you remain a male.

"Also, the idea of 'passing' or not bothers me - it's basically, has this man had more plastic surgery, hair extensions, make up etc. than the next guy. So what, he's still a man playing a role.

All the while women have been arguing for years that we should not need to look a certain way (i.e. fit into feminine stereotypes) to be deemed acceptable."

Couldn't have said it better. Woman is not a performance or an identity, it simply means adult female human. That's it.

No, I would never consider a TW to be a woman, because it is impossible.

I also don't understand how anyone who isn't a woman can feel like one. How would they know? Unless you've had the anxiety of leaky periods at school, PMT and sore boobs at times of the month, the slight fear walking home in the evening when someone is walking behind you - then you haven't a clue.

Not wanting to pressured into living a stereotypically male, macho lifestyle I can understand. The same as a woman shouldn't be denied the opportunity to work in what used to be stereotypically male jobs. I am sympathetic to that.

However, would I want them to have access to women's spaces, sports and shortlists? A definite no.

A girls' night out? I'm not sure. It would depend on personality. A gay male colleague came out on another's hen night and fitted right in.

No. They could never be a woman as they are not of the female sex, and you need that to be a woman.

I could however accept them as a man presenting as a woman in all spaces except the few spaces we have in society that are single sex ones.

Never. Trans "women" are men.