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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

A year ago a close family member broke ties with me for being a terf. No fall outs previously.

177 replies

BluebellBlueballs · 08/04/2023 23:13

I'm a little sad, exactly one year ago my brother found out I was gender critical and cut me off completely until I 'renounce my views '
He's not transgender or gay but seems to have accepted a woke moral superiority and called me a nazi and bigot for not including males in my definition of women.

I offered to agree to disagree and have a relationship but not talk about this one issue but he wouldn't accept that. Even for my dad's sake who is in his 80s and wants us to make peace.

I won't 'renounce my views ' at his command so despite my offer to agree to not discuss this one issue, we are now estranged.

What do I do? I have no ill intent towards transgender people but I believe in biological sex based definitions of humans and you cannot change sex. I had 2 very difficult pregnancies a man would never have to experience. I have lost my brother to the woke stasi and don't see a way forward.

I have to accept my brother is no longer in my life don't I?

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RealityFan · 09/04/2023 11:03

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Ah, that old chestnut. Amazing how it keeps coming around.

twelly · 09/04/2023 11:04

We live in a country where different views are accepted and people are allowed or should be allowed free speech. Interestingly I spoke to someone last week who clearly had different views from me on this subject and I said that I respected that their views were different and that in everyone is shaped by their own experience - they then said they did not respect my views and proceeded to be quite aggressive. I think that sort of sums it up really and in that case would argue that bigotry was present in not respecting that someone else can have a different opinion

TransMillennial · 09/04/2023 11:05

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dimorphism · 09/04/2023 11:05

Only one side make rape and death threats. That's because a large proportion of the other side are middle aged mothers concerned that children are destroying their healthy bodies and will have a lifetime of pain as a result.

Middle aged women aren't know for making rape and death threats.

It's so laughable really.

It's really repeating the history of the Red Guards.

MarshaBradyo · 09/04/2023 11:06

So a male happy to justify (or act on) male violence against women

On the feminist board.

KalimbaMoon · 09/04/2023 11:06

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What would the suffragettes think of GC women trying to protect the rights they fought for? Would they think they were hateful bigots? There seems to be such black-and-white thinking from TRAs on this. You’re either with us, 100%, no debate, or you’re an evil hateful t3rf. I just don’t get it. We’re ordinary, decent, law-abiding people who actually DO care about trans people! We just want to make sure women’s rights are protected too - and that means retaining single-sex spaces in certain circumstances. Why is that so terrible?

dimorphism · 09/04/2023 11:06

By the way I see nothing wrong with a statement saying that threats of violence, rape and death threats are abhorrent, clearly by any rational definition or argument they are.

However only the TRAs display this behaviour, not the GC (science based) side.

TheCentreSlide · 09/04/2023 11:07

The suffragettes would have been GC and they live on in the GC movement.

TransMillennial · 09/04/2023 11:08

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RealityFan · 09/04/2023 11:08

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Don't be so sure about Gen Alpha, I've seen enough evidence to know that the TRA is roundly mocked by them.

No, I think you'll find that it's the current Gen Z, X, young Millenials, who are captured, and will feel very lonely, and angry, once they cotton on as to how society so let them down.

Who knows, you may even be one.

TransMillennial · 09/04/2023 11:12

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beastlyslumber · 09/04/2023 11:13

RealityFan · 09/04/2023 10:37

That sounds very reasonable, but it really wasn't possible, take my word for it, and I was pretty shaken up at the time.

Effectively it was part of the froth and churn from that period. He's not someone I was ever gonna see again, and the other guests were uncomfortable, so I didn't push it. Indeed I've learnt subsequently that he treats so many others with disdain as well.

My bigger point is that TRAs absolutely feel justified in being more aggressive in conversations, bandying about terms like...hate, sexual racist, wiping out. Almost happy to fall out. Permanently if need be.

Even at my most animated, I won't use hateful terms about characters in the TRA world I truly dislike, or categorise the whole TRA movement in overly derogatory terms.

I'll always put my opinion in terms of science, philosophy, opposing pressures, and maintain my cool.

Re my Leave voters are racist "friend", the only solution long term would have been to never even hint at talking about Brexit again.

And certainly close relationships will have to negotiate the trans social landmines very carefully.

But also, we mustn't editorialise too much. We must all be true to ourselves. And be prepared to lose long term relationships.

Show quote history

I totally agree! Much easier to know what to say or do when you're not in the moment being ranted at!

I've lost friends over this stuff too. It's painful but like you suggest, inevitable.

dimorphism · 09/04/2023 11:13

Honestly they sound like teenagers who are cross their Mum has said no to continuing to wash their dirty clothes.

It's like witnessing a toddler tantrum, except given some of the toddlers have the strength of adult men it has already ended in violence e.g. the 70 year old woman whose skull was cracked recently, the woman with the broken hand in the US, the school shooting recently.

I understand why young people are angry these days but it's just so destructive and will in the end only make things worse for them and particularly for transgender people who want to just quietly live their lives. Many trans people have said the same.

In the end, when the Red Guard had harmed and killed enough people, the government in China did step in. I wonder how many women and children have to be harmed before that happens in all the countries in the grip of this anti-woman madness.

RudsyFarmer · 09/04/2023 11:14

i would delight in keeping this twat out of my life. I suspect if the girlfriend disappears he might have a rethink
on his views down the line. You hold fast. You have the right to your lived experience.

dimorphism · 09/04/2023 11:15

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Flat out lie. Also, we're the side with caring responsibilities. I'm betting most Mums aren't on twitter as they don't have the time.

Grimbelina · 09/04/2023 11:15

TransMillennial, I wouldn't be so sure. My early teen/pre-teen children are not on board with this and are very perceptive about the older, trans-identifying children in their schools (many of whom are neuro-diverse and/or confused about their identity/sexuality). They are much more clued up on social contagion etc. than I expected them to be.

TransMillennial · 09/04/2023 11:15

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TransMillennial · 09/04/2023 11:16

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MarshaBradyo · 09/04/2023 11:17

Who is punching who?

Scratch a TRA and you’ll find a man happy to punch, assault or abuse women

Quite concerning how the violence isn’t even a problem, but justified

dimorphism · 09/04/2023 11:17

Grimbelina · 09/04/2023 11:15

TransMillennial, I wouldn't be so sure. My early teen/pre-teen children are not on board with this and are very perceptive about the older, trans-identifying children in their schools (many of whom are neuro-diverse and/or confused about their identity/sexuality). They are much more clued up on social contagion etc. than I expected them to be.

I'm work in education so have contact with a large number of school-aged students and I find the same.

Many are very quiet about their GC beliefs but if you speak to them they absolutely see the emperor has no clothes.

The sad thing is, many of the children caught up in the cult really need help with other issues and they're not getting it because all the focus is on trans - exactly as Cass said.

TransMillennial · 09/04/2023 11:19

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TransMillennial · 09/04/2023 11:21

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DarkDayforMN · 09/04/2023 11:23

I just quoted Helen Joyce, but I replaced "trans" with "gender critical". Interesting response.

No you didn’t, which is why you couldn’t provide a source for it when asked. I know where part of the quote you utterly mangled came from and it wasn’t Helen Joyce.

ItsFunToBeAVampire · 09/04/2023 11:23
Tantrum Crying GIF

You're not here to learn, you're here to stamp your feet about the mummies not listening to you.

dimorphism · 09/04/2023 11:23

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Also a lie. DARVO in action.

I literally just expressed concern that so many young people who are trans are having other issues - such as significant SEN - ignored and not given appropriate support as Cass indicated was happening in her review.

The REASON I oppose the black and white reductive and un-nuanced TRA version of gender ideology is because I care what happens to these children.