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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A year ago a close family member broke ties with me for being a terf. No fall outs previously.

177 replies

BluebellBlueballs · 08/04/2023 23:13

I'm a little sad, exactly one year ago my brother found out I was gender critical and cut me off completely until I 'renounce my views '
He's not transgender or gay but seems to have accepted a woke moral superiority and called me a nazi and bigot for not including males in my definition of women.

I offered to agree to disagree and have a relationship but not talk about this one issue but he wouldn't accept that. Even for my dad's sake who is in his 80s and wants us to make peace.

I won't 'renounce my views ' at his command so despite my offer to agree to not discuss this one issue, we are now estranged.

What do I do? I have no ill intent towards transgender people but I believe in biological sex based definitions of humans and you cannot change sex. I had 2 very difficult pregnancies a man would never have to experience. I have lost my brother to the woke stasi and don't see a way forward.

I have to accept my brother is no longer in my life don't I?

OP posts:
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TransMillennial · 09/04/2023 10:32

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CreationNat1on · 09/04/2023 10:34

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Opposing his subjective view of bigotry, with the weapon of bigotry.

RealityFan · 09/04/2023 10:37

beastlyslumber · 09/04/2023 10:22

I don't think you have to see every conversation as an argument to be won. You could have simply said, well that's your opinion, but I don't see it that way. Then if you continue to see each other, you can try again. If he continues to be an overbearing bully on the subject, you can say, let's change the subject because I know you're not able to respect anyone else's opinions on this.

The other thing you can do is ask questions. Peter Boghossion's book on how to have impossible conversations is good on how to do this. Approaching it as, help me understand your opinion here - are you saying that there couldn't be any reason for voting Brexit other than racism? How do you understand why some black people and people of colour voted Leave? Has anyone ever presented you with an argument you find somewhat convincing? What would it take to make you question your opinion on this?

Of course, that won't work if someone is ranting in your face. In those circumstances I would listen quietly and when there's a lull, say, interesting view. I completely disagree but thanks for sharing. And then change the subject/leave.

That sounds very reasonable, but it really wasn't possible, take my word for it, and I was pretty shaken up at the time.

Effectively it was part of the froth and churn from that period. He's not someone I was ever gonna see again, and the other guests were uncomfortable, so I didn't push it. Indeed I've learnt subsequently that he treats so many others with disdain as well.

My bigger point is that TRAs absolutely feel justified in being more aggressive in conversations, bandying about terms like...hate, sexual racist, wiping out. Almost happy to fall out. Permanently if need be.

Even at my most animated, I won't use hateful terms about characters in the TRA world I truly dislike, or categorise the whole TRA movement in overly derogatory terms.

I'll always put my opinion in terms of science, philosophy, opposing pressures, and maintain my cool.

Re my Leave voters are racist "friend", the only solution long term would have been to never even hint at talking about Brexit again.

And certainly close relationships will have to negotiate the trans social landmines very carefully.

But also, we mustn't editorialise too much. We must all be true to ourselves. And be prepared to lose long term relationships.

Bláthannabuí · 09/04/2023 10:39

BluebellBlueballs · 08/04/2023 23:13

I'm a little sad, exactly one year ago my brother found out I was gender critical and cut me off completely until I 'renounce my views '
He's not transgender or gay but seems to have accepted a woke moral superiority and called me a nazi and bigot for not including males in my definition of women.

I offered to agree to disagree and have a relationship but not talk about this one issue but he wouldn't accept that. Even for my dad's sake who is in his 80s and wants us to make peace.

I won't 'renounce my views ' at his command so despite my offer to agree to not discuss this one issue, we are now estranged.

What do I do? I have no ill intent towards transgender people but I believe in biological sex based definitions of humans and you cannot change sex. I had 2 very difficult pregnancies a man would never have to experience. I have lost my brother to the woke stasi and don't see a way forward.

I have to accept my brother is no longer in my life don't I?

@BluebellBlueballs just wait it off... The amount of people who jumped on the bandwagon are not reevaluating & starting to wise up & are thinking scientifically.

TransMillennial · 09/04/2023 10:46

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MarshaBradyo · 09/04/2023 10:49

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I’m sure you would. We’ve seen how far males go to try to eradicate any indication of biological reality.

Punching women, assaulting them, threatening with violence and abuse. Male violence in all its glory.

I have no doubt there are many male cheerleaders.

dimorphism · 09/04/2023 10:49

CreationNat1on · 09/04/2023 10:34

Opposing his subjective view of bigotry, with the weapon of bigotry.

It's so hilarious isn't it? If you look at actions and not words, one side is acting with bigotry and it isn't women who recognise the reality of biology.

What do people think bigotry is? What's happened to the education system that they can be so ill informed?

The nearest dictionary to me says this is the definition of bigotry:

"obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group."

So let's look at the evidence of the OP's post. Both she and her brother have strong beliefs, but she's said she's willing to not talk about it, maintain a relationship and put her elderly father first whereas her brother won't. The one showing greater bigotry is definitely the brother.

RealityFan · 09/04/2023 10:51

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I guess you're the type to still wish upon a star.

Ingenieur · 09/04/2023 10:51

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Denying our right to exist, eh?

CreationNat1on · 09/04/2023 10:52

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Thankfully, you are not a dictator, so you won't be having your way.

TransMillennial · 09/04/2023 10:53

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MrsSquirrel · 09/04/2023 10:53

It is a sad situation. Even if the brother does eventually change his mind, agree to disagree or maybe even speak to OP at their father's funeral, their relationship will never be the same.

It's hard to feel affectionate towards someone who has insulted you and called you a Nazi.

anyolddinosaur · 09/04/2023 10:54

Young people are imposing gender on others, insisting if you dont match stereotypes you are a different sex and need to change your body. It's very damaging to women and children.

I dont want to associate with bigots who refuse to consider opposing views so I am low contact with some members of my family. I can agree to disagree on things like religious faith when people accept it's faith not reason. I can agree to disagree on politics, although it took me time to accept that some tories genuinely believe they are helping everyone. But bigots who think they are infallible, nope.

dimorphism · 09/04/2023 10:55

OP, I went low contact with my brother for years, he was an entitled, spoilt man-child who thought the world owed him everything and was intensely angry that I dared to not bow down before his delusions and seemingly genuinely thought that his wants should come before a 3 year old's (my DD's) needs.

In recent years he has mellowed as reality has bit him on the bum more than once. He's realised that shit happens, that you can't actually opt out of reality, and that sometimes being responsible and thinking about others is not only necessary but actually a better way to live your life. That sometimes being the responsible adult is the right thing to do.

He's probably never going to be my favourite person, but we now have a relationship without a total destruction of my boundaries and my children's boundaries being the prerequisite. He's so much nicer, give it time. Once the lawsuits start coming he's going to reverse ferret.

waterlego · 09/04/2023 10:55

I’m well aware you quoted Joyce@TransMillennial. Seems silly to say something you don’t actually believe though. Or do you believe what you said?

MrsSquirrel · 09/04/2023 10:56

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What? Interesting that someone can be gender critical and have different opinions from Helen Joyce?

dimorphism · 09/04/2023 10:56

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I don't believe you.

twelly · 09/04/2023 10:57

Disagreeing with someone isn't bigotry.

MarshaBradyo · 09/04/2023 10:57

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And yet it’s only the males who are violent on this issue.

Are you ok with that?

TransMillennial · 09/04/2023 10:58

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TransMillennial · 09/04/2023 10:59

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CreationNat1on · 09/04/2023 11:00

Whaaaat..... Brood mare for specific skin toned babies..... Please go speak to an appropriate medical professional.

waterlego · 09/04/2023 11:01

If any gender critical posters on MN have sent you rape threats or unsolicited pornography I’d be incredibly surprised @TransMillennial.

TransMillennial · 09/04/2023 11:01

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Abhannmor · 09/04/2023 11:02

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You sound very sane and rational yourself. Luckily your fascist views are held by a small and shrinking minority.

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