Kemi is on the case!

[SleekMamma]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/32012712-d2ef-11ed-b1cd-5223fe349502?shareToken=f8d230bb699c280b7ebafca5e872e305

Go Kemi Go Kemi

I am not 100% sure that the the GE is in the bag for Labour.

So clarifying sex means biological sex means a transman, like a women, can use a man as a comparator. However, it conversely means a transwoman’s comparator would be a woman.
If a transwomen was paid less than a man couldn't they claim discrimination on the basis of gender reassignment. Would the comparator then be a man who hasn't undergone gender reassignment

*So clarifying sex means biological sex means a transman, like a women, can use a man as a comparator. However, it conversely means a transwoman’s comparator would be a woman.

As men are frequently paid higher than women a transwoman could lose out.*

Huh
So when they are treated as actual women are, with lower pay, less career progression they don’t like it. Perhaps ‘TWANT’ after all? Or perhaps ‘TWAW but only for the fun girly bits we like not the unfair or yucky bits.’

This is so so funny. It’s going to be so funny having all these trans me in women’s toilets so we have no idea who is a trans man and who is a cis guy.

lols the times and Kemi are just playing us all.

ah this is going to be fun.

Kemi is great. As previously noted, her views are pretty mainstream Christian views and typical of the UK Nigerian diaspora population.

As to the question of whether she'll help single mothers or those on benefits etc. Etc. Women living in poverty are much more likely to go to prison, so this will help them. Women living in poverty are much more likely to need a refuge if they are victims of dv, so this will help them. Women living in poverty won't be able to afford private hospitals or private social care, so this will help them. It's middle class women, who know they will never go to prison, never need a shelter, be able to pay for their own care and private rooms in hospital, who are willing to shaft poorer women in the name of inclusivity.

Absolutely a key point.

The letter clarifies that transmen have been left open to risk wrt for example maternity rights.

This move would shift those rights/protections from transwomen (biological males who can't get pregnant) to transmen (biological females).

It makes it very clear that the 'trans rights' movement is only concerned with rights for those born male.

Not a word about how this will definitely improve the protections for transmen.

Kemi gets it. She's always got it.

The difference now is that the rest of the party, or maybe just Rishi, are letting her say it.

The writing on the wall is finally being read.

I think this is what was confusing me too. A transwoman has the biological sex of male, so his comparator would be a male.

Thank you so much everyone

I think I've just realised what you mean. If we're going by biological sex, a transwoman is defined as male, and so his comparator is another male, who is likely to be paid more (than a woman) so in that way he could claim discrimination if he's being paid less than a man.

zen1 · Today 18:50
Good ideas in principle, but in the time that it takes this to be ‘considered’, the Tories will probably be voted out of office. We need some action now.

A certain MtF transgender barrister is asserting it can’t come to anything for the reason you say. (ResisterRex posted this on the EHRC thread.)

https://twitter.com/moira_robin/status/1643315530995048450?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

No, I've confused myself again, I was supposed to be finding that a transwoman was disadvantaged by it, not advantaged! Still confused.

It is.

I really don't think this letter would have been published if decisions had not already been arrived at.

The genie is out of the bottle, now. The grown ups have finally entered the room, someone has pointed at Isla Bryson and said 'that man is wearing pink leggings'.

Trans people can be assured that their rights not to be discriminated against are still enshrined in law, as they should be, so they have that extra protection.

Transmen will gain some rights that were created to address disadvantages faced by being born female.

Transwomen will lose the right to be included in single sex exemptions for women.

A fairer and more equitable state, I would say.

Such good news

Amazing!

Jessica Elgot of the Guardian has also reported on this, article titled;
Kemi Badenoch could rewrite law to allow trans exclusion from single sex spaces.
Just popped up on my news feed. I don't subscribe and sorry dont know how to link!
Go Kemi go!

Kemi Badenoch could rewrite law to allow trans exclusion from single sex spaces

As I understood it, this would not be rewriting law, but clarifying an existing law to say the characteristic sex is biological because of the muddying of the meaning of sex over time.

It’s good news, hopefully the clarification will focus the minds of anyone giving out dodgy advice. Also publicity around it would give women who aren’t necessarily fully engaged in the debate the knowledge of what their actual rights are as to single sex spaces.

Not trans exclusion but male exclusion from single sex female spaces.

To argue against this is to insist that women must share hospital wards with men, that lesbians must accept men in their groups.... this does not work for women. It negatively affects women. The enforcing of the rights of the male over those non consenting women is wrong - and a decent male would understand that and not do it.

There has been no concern at all about women excluded from women's single sex spaces by men. None. No compassion, no interest at all, but derision and an attempt to reason that they were bad people (for having lives that couldn't prioritise the wishes of a man over their personal needs) who deserved to be kicked out and have no spaces.

Common sense and balance is re asserting. Third spaces time.

Long overdue

Really pleased to hear of this development.

As pp's have noted, the backlash really exposes the misogyny of the TRA movement as this would be a big benefit for trans men.

They don't care about that. It's all about the trans women....

Also realistically the downsides for trans women are virtually non existent. Re: issues of pay/injustice they mostly stem from maternity issues and a TW still would have capacity to claim discrimination in comparison to a male.

It's developments like this that despite being politically left of centre want to see the Tories remain in govt.

Should we be writing letters of encouragement to Badenoch and Faulkner?

This is interesting, wrt Human Rights:

'In connection to changes to legal sex, the courts have found violations of Article 8 if what is at stake is simply an individual’s right of recognition. This includes the right to marry and the right to a pension in their acquired gender. However, in cases where a state is balancing competing rights, for instance the rights of trans women and of biological women, Strasbourg has allowed a wider margin of appreciation. Indeed, human rights law may require the statutory recognition of biological sex. For instance, the enjoyment of separate sex and single sex spaces or sporting activities (see 8.6 and 8.7), when closely related to biological sex, is likely to fall within the material scope of Article 8..

My favourite bit of this thread is where it's said that this benefits the most vulnerable women in society as without the foundational understanding of what a woman is they cannot be protected from potential harm.

'It may be viewed as unjust that trans men with GRCs, who may have experienced discrimination as women at all earlier stages of their careers, lose the benefit of these measures at the point of legal transition. It may also seem unjust that trans women, who may have benefited from these structures prior to their transition, can obtain the benefit of these measures from the point of legal transition'

No shit.

Discussing single sex hospital wards:

'Including a trans woman in possession of a GRC would risk indirect sex discrimination against biological women, who may feel uncomfortable or unsafe with the presence of a trans woman'

I'm scunnered it's taken them this long to realise this.

This is so important. Why does fear of trans women dominate some areas of Mumsnet?

N0 - it's the depressing knowledge of the risks that some men pose to women. Transwomen retain the same levels of offending as other men, hence their exclusion from women only spaces.