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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Anatomy of the Near Murder of Kellie-Jay Keen

206 replies

ILikeDungs · 03/04/2023 09:56

" The leaps that Newshub made from Keen’s pro-woman and child safeguarding activism to associating her with neo-Nazis merely continued the execution of a draught already established from 2018 where socfems have made similar accusations."

https://savageminds.substack.com/p/anatomy-of-the-near-murder-of-kellie?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=65949&post_id=112245546&isFreemail=true&utm_medium=email

Anatomy of the Near Murder of Kellie-Jay Keen

How Legacy Media and Purity Feminists Created the Blueprint for the Auckland Mobs

https://savageminds.substack.com/p/anatomy-of-the-near-murder-of-kellie?isFreemail=true&post_id=112245546&publication_id=65949

OP posts:
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9
DerekFaker · 04/04/2023 08:48

AlisonDonut · 04/04/2023 08:24

She voted against gay marriage. Many gay people didn't agree with gay marriage.

Does that make them notorious homophobes as well?

Trans ideology is specifically and virulently homophobic [esp when they remove the penises of young males in order to make them straight]. So how does your thinking go exactly?

Are we really doing this again?

Even STONEWALL was torn on the issue of gay marriage. Many gay people still don't believe in it.

Can we leave the dumb twitter takes on twitter, please?

DerekFaker · 04/04/2023 08:49

Sorry quoted the wrong post!

Fossee · 04/04/2023 09:06

SinnerBoy · 04/04/2023 02:33

I haven't come across that, Fossee - have you got any examples?

Speak to lesbians who were activists in the 90's, they've got plenty more where this came from.

 Anatomy of the Near Murder of Kellie-Jay Keen
AlisonDonut · 04/04/2023 09:36

So 30 years ago she may or may not have said something and that makes her 'notorious'?

And you had to dig back 3 decades to find it?

Crikey mate.

QueenHippolyta · 04/04/2023 09:48

It's pathetic, I'm a Lesbian and was/am against gay marriage as it's a patriarchal institution detrimental to women (imo).
I love Baroness Nicholson she does so much for women!

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 04/04/2023 09:57

It’s a pretty mainstream view amongst Christians (and other Abrahamic religions) globally. Obvs some denominations have adjusted their position as the years have gone by but anyone whose views are formed by a really old book is going to be at least a little bit behind the zeitgeist, no?

Evidence that a Christian has (or had) Christian views in relation to how family and society should be organised isn’t exactly some big, shocking reveal, is it?

AlisonDonut · 04/04/2023 10:27

Apparently it is.

JanesLittleGirl · 04/04/2023 11:26

haXXor · 04/04/2023 02:19

ODFOD with your blatant race and class baiting.

Mary Queen Of Scots was raped by a man who abducted her as she was travelling. She then had to marry him because there was no way, as a queen, she dared to give birth out of wedlock. Class and race make misogyny worse, but no woman is immune to it, not even a queen.

Why do you think that Baroness Nicholson, a Tory, stands with us? And JKR, with her £millions?

Thanks for showing me what I wrote. It wasn't what I was trying to say. I won't try to explain what I actually meant but it really wasn't that stupid set of words.

I am sorry.

haXXor · 04/04/2023 11:41

JanesLittleGirl · 04/04/2023 11:26

Thanks for showing me what I wrote. It wasn't what I was trying to say. I won't try to explain what I actually meant but it really wasn't that stupid set of words.

I am sorry.

I'm not sure how to interpret what you said as anything other than an assertion that posh white women never care about other women.

AlisonDonut · 04/04/2023 11:43

JanesLittleGirl · 04/04/2023 11:26

Thanks for showing me what I wrote. It wasn't what I was trying to say. I won't try to explain what I actually meant but it really wasn't that stupid set of words.

I am sorry.

What were you trying to say that was misconstrued by the actual words that you wrote?

JanesLittleGirl · 04/04/2023 13:00

AlisonDonut · 04/04/2023 11:43

What were you trying to say that was misconstrued by the actual words that you wrote?

OK here goes...

I am not a political animal. I want single sex spaces, services and environments to be exactly that and I support any person who acts to achieve this. I don't care what their politics are. There are a group of women who either arrived at feminism through socialism or vice versa and now centre socialism in their thinking on any aspect of feminism. These women appear to want to invalidate any pro-woman activity that isn't explicitly socialist, even if that harms overall progress. This is the group that I lazily and inaccurately described as "posh, white women".

I still can't believe that I used that term and, once again, I apologise.

AlisonDonut · 04/04/2023 13:08

So basically you agree with the actual article?

JanesLittleGirl · 04/04/2023 13:14

AlisonDonut · 04/04/2023 13:08

So basically you agree with the actual article?

Absolutely.

Florissante · 04/04/2023 13:21

haXXor · 04/04/2023 11:41

I'm not sure how to interpret what you said as anything other than an assertion that posh white women never care about other women.

I don't know about anyone else but I can hardly move for all of the posh gender critical black and Asian women.

SapphosRock · 04/04/2023 13:41

QueenHippolyta · 04/04/2023 09:48

It's pathetic, I'm a Lesbian and was/am against gay marriage as it's a patriarchal institution detrimental to women (imo).
I love Baroness Nicholson she does so much for women!

I'm a lesbian and I can see why there is conflict. I am pro gay marriage and gay equality and feel naturally suspicious of people who are against it, especially if they are Tory.

Gay rights are fragile and could be taken away.

Saying that Baroness Nicholson has been supportive of many women's rights issues.

nilsmousehammer · 04/04/2023 14:18

Yes, seeing how very easy it has been to capture institutions and services, and to make destroying women's rights something not only justifiable but spun as positive and progressive? Via lots of manipulative language and marketing? And to get them so threatened so fast and remove access and equality in the way that has already been achieved?

Any vulnerable group should be watching this with alarm, because any group - race, faith, culture, sexuality - could so very easily be next.

DrLouiseJMoody · 04/04/2023 14:28

There is, though, some truth in WPUK and friends being largely constituted by middle-class socialists, and this class divide often manifests itself in activism (hence the sneering at women on a "Pound land safari"). Let's be blunt: People such as an Oxbridge educated philosophy professor from an academic background / journalist whose partner is a millionaire / someone who lives in a house owned by their parents and has never had a job are considerably less likely to face the sort of hardships working class women face just trying to survive. Perhaps that is why we have the spectacle of some conceding pronouns, platforming AGPs, and now, promoting Keir Starmer as a champion of women's rights.

They can afford to. Others can't.

I've been called "impolitical", "strategically unhelpful", and in private, certain of that crowd have done things like message my friends asking if I could stop describing myself as a "philosopher" since, post York, I'm not one and it embarrasses them. I've also been called academically stupid (which is a little odd given I out-qualify them), has my speech mocked (deaf), appearance insulted, and one fraud announces to everyone that I abused my wife. This, of course, is done privately so there's very little I can do but it's a lesson about what happens when someone not quite like them doesn't defer. You become subject to a trashing campaign.

I don't think any group is "elite" or has any "authority" (which seems to be part of the problem) but I wish there was conscious recognition of privilege. If you are not going to lose the roof over your head for speaking out (indeed, some have gained recognition they lacked before), then you are, relatively speaking, doing much better than most.

No-one who has put themselves on the line likes to be told they haven't suffered and some have been clearly harassed. But my point remains: it's a privilege to have things like a large platform, book deals, columns in major publications, and financial security. Comments like "head girls" are not the result of jealousy (I recognise I'm in a privileged position) but exasperation that there's utter obliviousness to what the reality of many women's lives are like. Add in condescending slurs like "domesticated zombies" and you'll alienate the very women who, politically at least, should be on your side.

SFW offers every woman a voice and there's no hierarchy. I'll take that over being lectured by those who, frankly, don't know better every single damn time.

SinnerBoy · 04/04/2023 14:44

That's a really heart felt piece, Louise I think that it really hits the target.

BezMills · 04/04/2023 15:39

Yep yep @SinnerBoy I agree. Thought ful and thought provoking. As you'd expect, really.

UtopiaPlanitia · 04/04/2023 16:46

Louise those are very well explained thoughts and it’s how I feel about the whole thing myself 👍

There’s definitely a class issue involved in this trashing and at times it feels there is a Fabian Society-like, Victorian philanthropist-like attitude of 'we, the educated middle classes, know what the working class really needs better than they do and we will speak on their behalf, whether they asked us to or not'. It’s like WPUK et al almost resent us plebs getting involved in our own direct (and plain spoken) activism that sidelines them and their salons/letters to The Guardian 🤷‍♀️ I feel alienated by them and their views.

DrLouiseJMoody · 04/04/2023 19:29

Thank you @UtopiaPlanitia and @SinnerBoy . For a long time I wondered what I had done wrong (having managed forty years without falling out with most people) but when you see that it's anyone who doesn't defer - and the latest target is someone who had the temerity to try and quietly leave the Radical Notion - you begin to understand that, whilst you may be flawed in ordinary ways, you are not everything they say.

Right now, I don't feel that WPUK and FiLIA have anything to offer me as a left-wing lesbian, and typing that is rather surreal since I should be their audience. All I've seen are machinations that have caused considerable damage because, or so it seems, others command the audience to which they feel entitled.

haXXor · 04/04/2023 19:29

Fabian Society-like

The Labour Party was meant to be mostly working-class, only a little Fabian Society. It's turned out the other way around.

JanesLittleGirl · 04/04/2023 20:29

@DrDrLouiseJMoody thank you for so eloquently saying what I completely failed to say.

UtopiaPlanitia · 05/04/2023 00:12

Having read on another thread that the Sex Matters petition on the govt website (to define sex in EA 2010 as biological sex), in combination with Baroness Nicholson’s letters to ministers, seem to have gained some traction with Kemi Badenoch/Rishi Sunak/the EHRC; it seems to me that women who work across the political aisle are achieving actual results. I would have thought that the violence at the LWS events getting a lot of recent press coverage will have boosted things along a bit too.

So far, the women campaigning on issues (without involving themselves in purity politics) appear to be achieving more than the socfems fervently waiting for Labour to reverse its current views on women’s rights.

I think Labour Women’s Declaration seem to be less socialist-jingoist about politics than say WPUK but on the whole the women who engage with the current government, and who engage with other women of varying political persuasions, seem to be better at bringing the attention of the public to the issues and at getting support from the government of the day (even if the Tories are only committing to doing the right thing for self-serving political reasons, it’s still great that they’ll actually publicly commit to doing them).

Just some random thoughts that I thought might fit with the theme of this thread 🤔🤔

DerekFaker · 05/04/2023 06:53

Louise I saw some of the behaviour you were subjected to on twitter and it was truly disgusting. Thank you for your thoughtful, measured posts x

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