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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Anatomy of the Near Murder of Kellie-Jay Keen

206 replies

ILikeDungs · 03/04/2023 09:56

" The leaps that Newshub made from Keen’s pro-woman and child safeguarding activism to associating her with neo-Nazis merely continued the execution of a draught already established from 2018 where socfems have made similar accusations."

https://savageminds.substack.com/p/anatomy-of-the-near-murder-of-kellie?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=65949&post_id=112245546&isFreemail=true&utm_medium=email

Anatomy of the Near Murder of Kellie-Jay Keen

How Legacy Media and Purity Feminists Created the Blueprint for the Auckland Mobs

https://savageminds.substack.com/p/anatomy-of-the-near-murder-of-kellie?isFreemail=true&post_id=112245546&publication_id=65949

OP posts:
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9
CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 03/04/2023 19:46

Thank you for making your personal position clear @DrLouiseJMoody 💐

There is safety in numbers and a small group of women have tried to deny KJK safety and community with endless smears, bad faith takes & demands for denouncement.

Mind you, it’s had a bit of a Streisand-type effect because every new attempt at a reputation-trashing seems to end with more (previously indifferent) women joining TeamSFW!

Why the ACTUALLEFTFEMINISTS don’t just block her on all their socials and reserve their KJK-bashing energy for their own projects, I don’t know 🤷‍♀️

1Week · 03/04/2023 19:49

All any of us can do is listen to people and see what positions we agree with. They won't all be the same, specially if its based in self-interest. But it's possible to disagree without getting personal and hateful about it. That's everyone's responsibility.

SapphosRock · 03/04/2023 19:50

Great post @Misstache

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 03/04/2023 19:52

1Week · 03/04/2023 19:49

All any of us can do is listen to people and see what positions we agree with. They won't all be the same, specially if its based in self-interest. But it's possible to disagree without getting personal and hateful about it. That's everyone's responsibility.

Can we still be funny tho?

I’d hate for us to be as po faced as the TRAs!

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 03/04/2023 20:06

people on this thread can talk in such foul ways about women on the left

I went back and reread the thread in case I'd missed something but nope

can you give examples of the foulness please?

I can see a lot of women genuinely puzzled and exasperated. One person referred to 'pound shop Eva Braun'. that's pretty unpleasant. but of course that was said by Julie Bindel about KJK so probably doesn't count for your purposes.

you may read this as bullying, but I'd genuinely like to understand what you read as 'foul' on the thread

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 03/04/2023 20:08

loathe as I am to get into that spiral again, I read as implicit in your post that KJK is in some way both right wing and racist?

nilsmousehammer · 03/04/2023 20:20

Most women here are women on the left. If you're talking about politics.

Just not part of the extreme purist movement, which seems to be one of the main reason most of the left parties are running out of left voters prepared to put a cross in the box for them.

Misstache · 03/04/2023 20:38

No, I never said that. But certainly, criticizing the tactic of appearing with/meeting with the Heritage Foundation - who are undeniably racist and right wing - isn’t “head girl” bullying or some crime that feminists on the left need to apologize and account for if it bothers people. And the rage some feel towards these women for voicing that critique which is a legitimate one is unsettling.

TRAs are also racist - the whole “if Black women are women then men can be women” rhetoric. It is Black women in sports overwhelmingly harmed by the loss of scholarship opportunities, and Black women are more likely to be in prisons and shelters. So I can criticize that AND ALSO be uncomfortable with the many threads on here where people cheer on right wing podcasts, articles, etc. and then get angry when others raise concerns about their broader views.

If racism doesn’t impact your life, it’s perhaps easier to dismiss it as something lesser that you don’t have to worry about. And maybe then it really doesn’t make a difference to you what other content JP or triggernometry or Daily Wire or Daily Mail or whatever put out. And that’s your prerogative.

But for me, it does matter. And if you don’t have to teach your own children from the time they are toddlers how to play outside carefully, how to put up their hands if stopped, how to defend their being in school, etc. then maybe it’s not a big deal to you and it’s easy to say it’s “purity politics” to care about the content of the media people appear on, or their views on “illegals,” or what voting for them just because “they at least know what a woman is.” But that doesn’t make other women wrong whom it does matter to, and those women don’t deserve the kind of slagging off that is becoming so common on here if you raise any concerns about what else people believe.

The racist appropriation of “woke” (a long standing term of Black consciousness) by the right wing matters to me. The killing of Black people by police matters to me, as does when the Daily Wire makes a documentary smearing George Floyd to defend police killings of people who look like me. The backlash about teaching slavery and the accurate history of racism matters to me. And so on. So, no, it doesn’t make me feel particularly comfortable that so many white women are willing to accept these views for the sake of what they see as a greater battle. Because for me, my womanhood isn’t separated from my race. I experience them together. I can’t overlook the harm done by these Foundations and podcasts and right wing men because I and my children actually am impacted by that. KJK and WoLF etc. feel differently, and that’s their strategic decision. I can even understand their logic. But it doesn’t make other women who disagree with that tactic bullies, or elitist, or in league with TRAs or whatever. And if I must turn my head and ignore it for the sake of greater battles I don’t see why other women can’t also in their turn make some compromises too. But it seems increasingly the left is asked to shut up because “it’s not politics, it’s all women” but then those saying that aren’t willing to give up any of their political allegiances for that same unity.

1Week · 03/04/2023 20:52

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 03/04/2023 19:52

Can we still be funny tho?

I’d hate for us to be as po faced as the TRAs!

Oh I hope so!!

I just dislike the trend of casting right wing as obviously bad - Never kiss a Tory and suchlike.
Policies and viewpoints stand or fall on their merits but the label obscures details and keeps us clashing with each other instead of finding a solution, which, boringly, is usually somewhere in the middle.

Hepwo · 03/04/2023 20:59

But certainly, criticizing the tactic of appearing with/meeting with the Heritage Foundation

You didn't bother to read the article then? The one the threads about. You have just gone straight to repeating lies? On a thread about how these lies contributed to an appallingly violent situation?

Ok then.

Have you been nominated for tonight's kick Posie/Mumsnet shift?

AlisonDonut · 03/04/2023 21:05

When she met with the Heritage Foundation, she was meeting with women whose kids had been indoctrinated right? Which is the point of her campaign, that all women are allowed to be concerned about this?

You all know by now what happens to women on the left who rise against this. They are immediately branded racist Nazis. So the only solution is to talk to anyone, everyone and to leave all other opinions, campaigns, issues aside.

Julie fucking Bindel goes on tour with Milos Yiannopoulos and not an eyebrow is raised. KJK meets with other women of the wrong sort and all hell breaks loose for years on end.

Misstache · 03/04/2023 21:05

She did meet with representatives from the Heritage Foundation. That doesn’t translate to being funded by them but the meeting took place. She’s right here in her own video talking about it:

So please stop gaslighting women who disagree with that tactic!

Posie Parker visits The Heritage Foundation

Kellie-Jay Keen standing for womenlet women speak#letwomenspeak

https://youtu.be/PuSzqtK8sSc

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 03/04/2023 21:07

thank you for the reply

are you going to address the foulness in a different post?

a few thoughts raised by your post

JP or triggernometry or Daily Wire or Daily Mail

I presume JP = Jordan Peterson? I don't like him much, heaven knows, but having googled his name and 'racism' I'm a bit stumped about why he's in your list - can you explain?

Ditto Triggernometry. I don't like them much either and I think women who laud them are frankly buying into patriarchy, but that's their choice. However, I'm not convinced on the charge of racism. I can see that they've spoken to a number of black people with views that may differ from yours about racism (Nimco Ali, John Mcwhorter, Coleman Highes, Katharine Birbalsingh). I'm unconvinced that makes them racist.

I'm not too sure about the Daily Wire I'm afraid. Haven't come across them here despite spending far too much time on this site. Are you sure they're regularly referenced?

And the Daily Mail. Yes, they can be breath takingly awful. And yet, on occasion they get it right. They did for Doreen Lawrence. They routinely do on the subject of violence against women. Plurality in the press is a good thing it turns out.

I respect your views regarding the choice WoLF made to take funds from the ADF. My problem tends to be when people say this proves WoLF or KJK are aligned with the far right (you haven't done this) or that it means they're irretrievably tainted.

I don't even like KJK that much (although I respect her a great deal, particularly after recent events). I just like senseless bullying even less.

Misstache · 03/04/2023 21:08

Julie Bindel shouldn’t have toured with MY either and any woman who has an issue with that also wouldn’t be a head girl elitist bully. And if Jewish women said it made them feel less welcome given his support of Kanye West’s anti-semitism that also wouldn’t be “purity politics.”

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 03/04/2023 21:08

Misstache · 03/04/2023 21:05

She did meet with representatives from the Heritage Foundation. That doesn’t translate to being funded by them but the meeting took place. She’s right here in her own video talking about it:

So please stop gaslighting women who disagree with that tactic!

I think my reply would be 'so what'?

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 03/04/2023 21:10

and I should say I've replied to a lengthy post only to nit pick at a small part. That's because I either agree, don't disagree or am being given food for thought by the rest of your post

AlisonDonut · 03/04/2023 21:13

Misstache · 03/04/2023 21:08

Julie Bindel shouldn’t have toured with MY either and any woman who has an issue with that also wouldn’t be a head girl elitist bully. And if Jewish women said it made them feel less welcome given his support of Kanye West’s anti-semitism that also wouldn’t be “purity politics.”

Why shouldn't she have toured with him?

Do you realise cancelling everyone you don't personally agree with, rather than having a debate is leading to a massive backlash? People are sick to the back teeth of being told who they can and cannot watch, listen to, read etc. It used to be the case that in order to refute claims we had to first engage and put our points across. Now everyone screams if someone likes the wrong tweet.

BezMills · 03/04/2023 21:17

@Misstache I appreciate your recent posts and they are food for thought. I am quite privileged in some ways and it is good to be reminded.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 03/04/2023 21:21

something about the turn this thread has taken made me go and tread the wikipedia entry for Town Bloody Hall

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_Bloody_Hall

apparently the film begins [...], with hecklers outside the building shouting that Germaine Greer "betrays the poor"

women. always in the wrong for not being mummy to absolutely everyone all at once

plus ca change eh?

Town Bloody Hall - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_Bloody_Hall

Coyoacan · 03/04/2023 21:22

And the rage some feel towards these women for voicing that critique which is a legitimate one is unsettling

Actually, nobody voiced any critique of Posie going to an event held at the Heritage Foundation until she was halfway across the Atlantic and, if I remember rightly, said criticism was made by someone who had been invited and agreed to go with her and stood her up at the last minute.

It is a valid talking point and has not been ignored on this board, but do you really think that those women attending that meeting has resulted in you and yours suffering more racism?

Hepwo · 03/04/2023 21:26

Look, some of us know what happened. Some of us saw her streaming at time. She was sitting in the audience with parents, as a parent. Some of us heard from the mother in distress who had organised it.
Some of us care about the damaged children of all parents, all of them.

So you are just joining a line of women who are being nasty about that American mother, nasty about the parents that organised that meeting and all because they vote for a different political party to you.

It's pretty vile really.

From the article.

Hatchet also claims that Keen was to speak on a Heritage Foundation panel. This is simply untrue and yet this lie was massively repeated throughout socfem social media feeds for years. Keen attended an event that was hosted at the Heritage
Foundation and held a separate event at the Washington DC Public Library. Dansky also refers to the alleged “meeting” to which Hatchet refers, clarifying, “There was never any ‘meeting’ at the Heritage Foundation. It was a panel event and you can see it here,” adding, “The only ‘meeting’ was a gathering of parents whose kids were struggling with ‘trans’. No laws or policies were discussed. The parents (mostly mothers) were thrilled to meet Keen. It was very moving.”

Misstache · 03/04/2023 21:33

Every time I go to find links my post disappears. This is like my 5th time trying to respond.

So I can’t post links, but Peterson has a history of racist posts against Indigenous people, including a tweet in 2016 about Indigenous people being drunks. Senator Murray Sinclair, the author of the TRC report talked about the racism behind those stereotypes. He proposed a surveillance website of “ women’s, ethnic and racial studies” which he said should be eliminated. He denies the existence of racism in Canada. And so on, so it isn’t the point of the thread, but there’s ample evidence of his racially biased and racist commentary.

Also not the subject of the thread, but answering the question about Daily Wire - they are the media company that hosts Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, Michael Knowles, etc.

My point isn’t OMG YOU’RE A NAZI IF YOU TALK TO THEM. It was that critiquing that as a strategy isn’t wrong nor are people who are uncomfortable or disagree with that strategy therefore responsible for violence against KJK. It’s ok for Black women to dislike right wing men and their politics and not want to support them or feel comfortable with their works and views and to identify the harm they do to us. That doesn’t make me some bully to women. And can you see the double standard here? Left wing feminists who critiqued her stand accused of stoking violence against her - that’s holding THEM guilty by association. Just as she’s not responsible for the actions of Nazis, they’re not responsible for the actions of TRAs.

My point in my examples of my own views was to say it’s not as easy as just saying we’re all women so therefore we can just be quiet about things that bother us under the assumption that there are bigger battles. I certainly don’t speak for all Black women and others disagree. I’m saying my own experience of reading this site (much more than I comment and for far longer than I had an account) sometimes makes it hard, that’s all. And those political differences are normal but left wing women shouldn’t be accused of colluding in “nearly murdering” KJK because some disagree with her political choices. That’s all.

Hepwo · 03/04/2023 21:37

Hatchet caused a lot of trouble. She was being talked up a lot at the time because of her bike rides and on the back of that appeared alongside Posie and two other women at a meeting in Cornwall arranged by local woman when WPUK dumped them.

Hatchet then attached herself to Julia and Posies US trip.

On discovering she would be in the vicinity of parents whose voting habits she despised she started denouncing and hasn't stopped since.

Nothing to be proud of there.

It's these hated parents and their hateful votes that are actually achieving bills that are preventing damage to children in the USA. Left wing children too.

I can't believe how duplicitous people are over this.

Hepwo · 03/04/2023 21:39

We are calling out the bullying of a woman because it's actually bullying. No other reason.__

Misstache · 03/04/2023 21:43

Notice that I’m called “nasty” and “vile” and in favour of harming children because I explained why it’s reasonable for other women to recognize the harm HF do and to disagree? And then people are going “where’s the foulness on this thread?” Right there!

I could call you in favour of murdering Black women and children by that same tactic and say that you obviously don’t care about pregnant Black women being murdered by the police then and you don’t care about listening to Black mothers who have been harmed by violence because it doesn’t suit your politics. Is that fair? No it’s not and it would be a horrible thing to say. So don’t say it to me.

And why do we have to have some allegiance to KJK? Can’t we condemn the violence against her and also say there’s things we disagree with? No woman deserves to be assaulted and crushed by crowds and screamed at. I just think it’s unfair to condemn other women just because they don’t share her politics. Women get to have different viewpoint. I can both think she’s brave and like some of her actions, and also dislike other choices, just like anyone else, just like I feel about any number of women. I don’t love everything Angela Davis does either.

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