What if you're all wrong about KJK? Even her own security have serious concerns

[andarounditgoesagain]

Her own security are saying she's courting trouble for views, knowingly putting them in danger, that she has no human connection with people but her fans don't notice as they hero-worship her and see what they want to see, and that the end game is she's after becoming a talking head in the US, and that SFW women are just pawns she's using to get there.

twitter.com/Fair_Maiden1/status/1637529465126285312

She seems more and more like a Katie Hopkins type who's leeching off our movement.

I used to love her, before I get accused of jealousy. I still love the approach of platforming women who don't usually get a chance to be heard.

But actual nazis are now turning up at women's rights events - precisely because KJK refused to denounce them and has been courting the far right for ages. It's not a coincidence.

What does she have to do before women realise she's using us?
At what point do women accept KJK is toxic and damaging our movement?

If those closest to her have serious concerns - shouldn't you?

I suspect OP believes us silly mums need a "new leader" to show us the "right way" to feminist or something.

Some of us, OP, can't find much in common with KJK, at ALL. Except our desire to protect children and women's rights.

Now, i understand from your posts that for "your movement", political purity is everything.

Doesnae work like that for those of us at the coalface, hen. You sit there in your precious wee bubble and choose your "allies", take yer time, nae rush, it's not like the fecking world is burning or anything.

We'll get the buckets of water and slosh it all about, till you're ready to swoop in on your fancy white charger and fix it all for us.

Or are ye just gonna keep scolding us?

Don't know anything about her but is the problem "a woman sharing her views, inciting violence" - or is the problem the violent response to them?

No one should be silenced because a group will physically hurt them or their allies. The fact that her security team are worried shows that there are some proper lunatics out there.

did someone say Inigo's name!

Dodgy Islamic views? Would you care to elaborate with evidence?

Ooooh don't! I'm trying to work and now I'm all distracted......oooooh Inigo, Inigo......

Happy sigh

In a weird twist, the house that I live in [which we bought, in France 2 years ago], was one that the actual nazis drove down and the lady across the road [who still lives there and who was a little girl during the war] waved at one of the nazi troops.

He waved back.

I must therefore be literally nazi adjacent.

Gosh.

That. ^^

'New leader'..... it's going to be like herding cats because this is the thing that ideologists can't cope with, it's not a 'gang', it's not a 'side', probably most women posting here have different views and perceptions and that's ok .

No flag needed. No mantras. (Except possibly welljelofkel.com).

Necessary wrote a brilliant post a few weeks back which I can't find but explained extremely well: when you have a very 'normal' view such as 'sex exists' and 'women should not be a subordinate race to men', and 'gravity's a thing', you are going to have a very large, very diverse group and it's going to include all kinds of people. Who agree on one thing but not necessarily much else.

When you have a small niche group belief, such as 'feminism should be done by the RIGHT people in the RIGHT way and lesser women should not get in the way of this', and 'male supremacism is a good thing', you're going to have a much narrower group, with a lot more propped up purity.

From what I can see, having read lots of different accounts from people who were there and watched some of the footage, it appears that some very nasty extreme right-wing individuals and groups turned up, including the dangerous idiots in the Nazi regalia. It seems likely that they were there to square up to Antifa: I remember some very scary anti-Nazi League demonstrations in the 90s when the fascists turned up, hoping for a fight and lots of publicity. That's how they operate, they're opportunists.

If I'd organised the demonstration, I'd put out as public an announcement as I could that these people were nothing at all to do with me, and in a public place I'm not in control of who turns up. But here's the thing. I didn't organise the demonstration. I didn't build up an international following, and make disenfranchised and silenced women feel they could come along and speak out. I didn't put my life on the line, making myself visible and a target for smears, slurs and threats, not to mention police action. I didn't do that work and take those risks. KJK did, so I think she has the right to run things how she decides.

Purity gets my goat. I'm not "pure" enough for ye? I'm doing it wrong, am I?

Oh

Fucking

Dear.

Would be able to articulate what part of the OP, the original post gave you the impression that this person wished to engage in a productive discussion.

Was it the unverified information in an ambiguous tweet? From an OP that over 6 pages has not verified the exchange in any way?

Was it calling a woman who organises events to allow other women to speak, without them having to be vetted for purity of opinion, without hierarchy, without them needing to be feminist academics or spokespeople, a Katie Hopkins type?

Was it the OP's lazy attempt to blame women speaking for the violent actions, or even attention of males who lack the ability to think critically, rationally and with the ability to control their actions and interactions? Particularly with women who disagree with them?

Sounds like someone who is either misogynistic or using misogynistic arguments to me. Maybe you see it differently. Maybe you thought that she has a point and that no women or woman's group should now meet again because everywhere it happens, protestors, mostly males, who cannot control their impulses, turn up.

Was it the rather patronising accusation made from an already made up mind that women are being used by a women and that we, adult women with brains of our own, are hero-worshippers, and just ignorant of such things?

I am interested in how you have read that OP and why you believed that 'this' time an unknown OP posting in this style was posting in good faith?

Oh do bore off with this same "guilt by association" tactic that appears here every bloody day.

It hasn't worked, it's not going to work, and it's just utterly pathetic that anyone thinks it will.

The lack of creativity is very worrying, if you're hoping to be some kind of leader, OP.

Isn't part of feminism the right for women to have their own opinions without having to clear it with someone else first? e.g. patriarchy. Simply subsitituting a new group or idea for the patriarchy means the same oppressions just different people doing it. That's not liberation. This "you're doing feminism wrong, you should do it the way I say, the right way" thing really has the same vibe as this :

but without the humour

I think you may be confusing 'not willing to debate' with 'entirely out of patience with never ending fuckwittery'. Women here are tired of this, they've had bloody years and years of it, the threads are all here.

Here is a question.

How does this denouncement work then?

Do even those fully supported by the socialist feminists need to do these denouncements?

The viewing of a documentary about women speaking for instance. Did denouncing those violent and intimidating protestors work? Did they stay away and allow women to view the documentary that these women worked so hard to produce?

Do those filmmakers have to do that every single time they tweet or talk?

How much denouncement is enough? Before each event? Before each tweet? Each speaker needs to make the denouncement?

What about the fact that at that protest in Melbourne, it seems like at least some of the other groups (there were supposedly six separate groups there on the day) also had permits to be there? Should Kellie Jay and the organisers have to put out a denouncement for every group that had a permit for the day that was there legally protesting? Would the department issuing the permits even be allowed to disclose who had permits?

Please do tell us all how this denouncement model works in reality and why it is that one women's efforts is the target for needing this denouncement model while not others?

We've had the debate over and over and over. I'm personally bored to death of hearing the same points repeated, with never any logic or evidence in support. It's tiresome.

If you don't support kJK, if you hate her, think she's too blonde, don't like her jumpsuits or whatever... fine. Entirely up to you. But trying to smear her as a fascist and blame her for male violence is just bollocks and we've heard it all before.

@beastlyslumber
Well when you don't have a good argument you have no choice but to go with the one you've got. That's all they got.

Thank you.

I don't know how else to share my genuine concerns about Standing for Women, as headed by KJK. Once you see it, you can't unsee it.

I believe KJK's a self publicist / narc who's using the women's movement for her own ends (money, notoriety, opportunities for herself). I think she's unethical and taking women for a ride. I think her actions are working against our aims to protect single sex spaces.

I would dearly love to be wrong. But, nothing anyone had said here has given my anything to go on, they seem to just want to insult me / score points / project KJK's narratives about her critics onto me.

I'm also dismayed as all the apologising for KJK's courting of the far right or flat denial, when the evidence is online - look at her videos with a critical eye. She's been doing it for ages.

Although, at least if people are denying she's doing it, maybe they agree it's a terrible idea, there is that, at least.

Fair enough. If you don't like her way of doing things then stand up and be the voice you want to hear. Do some campaigning yourself. If you have a better way of seeing things then I am sure other women will support you. You have to be loud and determined and really put yourself out there and fight.

She's not courting the far right, OP. Where is your evidence for that?

Ultimately you don't have to support KJK. Do your own thing. No one cares. Just stop spreading lies.

I don't believe the OPs random screenshots - could be faked.

I also don't believe the Nazis at the last rally who - unlike the TRAs and antifa were rather suspiciously escorted near to the women speaking for what appeared to be a photo op - were real. They certainly seemed to be aided and abetted by the police in a very odd move.

The thing is, if you go around saying that women who believe in biology and scientific reality are bigots then we just stop believing you on everything else.

All I see is that KJKs events are literally the only place women are allowed to speak freely about women's rights in the public square and recount their own experiences of sexism and misogyny - which are many and varied.

Even in the supposed seat of democracy, the House of Commons, Miriam Cates was subject to an appalling display of male aggression and intimidation tactics by a labour politician, with no consequence for him at all.

If it wasn't so serious for women's rights and child safeguarding this attempt to brand middle aged mothers as Nazis would just be ridiculous.

Have you recently name changed? I don't recognise you from this board at all.

Hey, let me tell you some tips that might help.

Drop the patronising tone. Drop the unverified accusations. Drop the deeply concerning comparison with Katie Hopkins. And actually just post a neutral post.....

Here is request:

"I'm also dismayed as all the apologising for KJK's courting of the far right or flat denial, when the evidence is online - look at her videos with a critical eye. She's been doing it for ages."

Please post the 'evidence' that you have read that has convinced you to such a degree that you would start such a patronising and inflammatory thread on a feminist chat board. We are all here to read it and be convinced.

But if it is like your link in your OP, don't be expecting anyone to be convinced like you. You might be disappointed by the results.

How does one 'court the far right' anyway?

She's not everyone's cup of tea and it took me a while to warm to her I'll be honest, but what she is very good at doing is getting the movement noticed. A lot of people don't believe in genderwoo but have been conditioned not to say anything for fear of being called a transphobe. KJK's biggest contribution IMO is that she makes people aware that it's ok to challenge gender ideology and a growing number of people (mainly women) are calling out the BS.

OP you also have to bear in mind that the modus operandi of Nazis was to piggy back onto existing culture and points of agreement between people.

The arm-raising salute was done by German hikers to greet each other as they passed, acknowledging one another as fellow Wanderung, and was hijacked by the nazis and became their salute.

What happened at the rally was exactly what you would expect of these people. They take something healthy and vibrant - in this case, the fight to preserve women's rights - and warp it for their own gains.

Anyone who can't see that (TRAs certainly practicing some pretty wilful ignorance today) needs to read up on their history.