Telegraph: MoJ to ban transwomen (male to female) from women's estate - links with specific details

[ResisterRex]

KPSS has provided an accessible link to the Telegraph story (see their tweet) and say they will comment on more detail tomorrow. Here's part of the Telegraph story:

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/26/transgender-prisoners-convicted-violence-banned-womens-jails/

"The Ministry of Justice (MoJ) is toughening its stance, meaning that not only transgender women convicted of sexual assaults but also those jailed for violence will no longer be able to be held in mainstream women’s prisons.
Violent offences will include murder, attempted murder, harming a child, assault with intent to cause serious harm or with injury, endangering life, and harassment.
The new rules will also cover all transgender women with male genitalia and will apply regardless of whether transgender prisoners have a gender recognition certificate.
The MoJ said exemptions would only be made in exceptional cases and would also have to be <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/Iqojr/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/08/06/trans-prisoners-will-not-housed-women/" rel="nofollow" target="blank">signed off by ministerss."

Here's the KPSS short thread:

twitter.com/noxyinxxprisons/status/1629768643780255744?s=46&t=p4GrD7xZK4xup2YXGSOk7w

"This is an incredible achievement & is testimony to @MoJGovUK, @DominicRaab listening.
The new policy is out tomorrow. It covers prisons & approved premises, with separate guidance to follow for Youth Custody Services"

Oh do spare a thought for the feelings of violent offenders.

Why isn’t it just all crimes and all TW going to prison? It isn’t just the issue of those more likely to perpetrate violence it’s sharing close confined space with male bodies without consent.
somehow it makes it more ridiculous to be extending it as a form of risk assessment- they need to be clear that prison allocation is sex based and that’s the end of it- get get out clause.

Yes, no exceptions makes more sense, with or without male genitalia, with or without GRC, and whatever the crime. There is no reason foamy of them to be in a position where they will intimidate women. There should be no female warmers who do body searches on males and no males doing body searches on females. No debate.

For any …grr

Tried that. Failed.

Halleluia! It is absolutely possible to meet the needs of complex males without using females.

I will be interested to see the loophole clause and what such special exceptional circumstances may be because frankly it should be just a straight 'male, male estate, end of'. However considering the SNP clinging to the myth of the fully transitioned sweet and slightly fraud committing accountant and the criminal history of many of the males currently in the Scots women's estate?

If no convictions for violence and/or sex crimes was applied there, even without the additional clause of no male genitalia, it seems unlikely that many male prisoners would be left in the female estate.

Trainnerd · Today 09:30

Why isn’t it just all crimes and all TW going to prison?

It may be that they know that nobody can realistically oppose this move and that they'll add more later. Let's hope so.

Thank god for that!

Lets hope the use of the description “TW with male genitalia” disseminates to common parlance. Stonewall, Mermaids et al would all say that phrase is transphobic. No it isn’t, it’s the truth.

And thank you again to the photographer of the Scottish rapist in his pink leggings showing off his male genitalia. Another penny dropping moment for the general public.

a step in the right direction but not good enough.

No males in Female jails.

Good news, let's hope it's upgraded to 'any' crime. No men in womens prisons.

Meanwhile David Lammy has been in Sophie Ridge saying it's a sensitive subject and it should be looked at case by case. Evidently Isla Bryson wasn't a genuine transwomen - how do we work it out then David?

I wish the msm would delve deeper in their questioning on this.

Should also include male prison officers imo.

This x infinity

There will be already a legal team behind every male prisoner in the female estate, supported vigorously by rich political lobby groups (government funded) who will kick off massively and put a lot of pressure on.

Up to this point, they have always got their own way.

KPSS have a crowdfunder with 9 hours to go - if anyone can help, you can find it by googling crowdfunder fighting for women in prison.

Its a very good start but its a pity it doesn't cover ALL TWs.

But there again, how many TW with non violent crimes are in the female estate atm.

I agree. It's the don't think of an elephant thing. Referring explicitly to male genitalia paints a very different image to rainbows and unicorns.

This too. See also healthcare. If women and girls ask for a female HCP that means no males.

Sounds like a solid step in the right direction. Only took like what, 10 years? In which time, people voicing this have been called evil, violent, facists, no better than nazis. Those people are owed an apology.

It wouldn't have gone on so long either, if papers like the Guardian hadn't just ignored the issue, and failed to report every instance. I have friends who really believed "this never happens".

And when the Guardian finally reported on Isla Bryson, they cropped "her penis" out of the picture of course.

This

The answer is weaken or repeal the GRA of course but this is a solid step in the right direction.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone doesn't try to challenge even this. KPSS seem pleased and to acknowledge the limits - they say more commentary will come tomorrow from them.

The government is also tying Labour's hands if they win the GE. Whoever is the future responsible Minister, will have to say yes or no to the Isla Brysons to come.

I think it's a really decent starting point. And I think it's vaguely limited to stop TRAs etc putting pictures of TW like Blair White (who, while as far as I know does retain male genitalia, also does a pretty good job of passing, at least in photo and video form) and wailing at the idea of sending a TW like that to a male prison for a tax evasion or shop lifting or similar. As it is, this proposed change cuts off that sympathy gathering route. Much harder for the guardian et Al to argue that a transwoman with male genitalia being sent to prison for a violent crime should be in the female estate.

Also, as far as the stats go, I think most incarcerated TW are in for violent or sex crime? So this proposal would actually cover the vast majority of TW in the prison estate.

Well done KPSS. A shame that Sophie Ridge didn't question David Lammy further about his "sensitive issue" comment - maybe he'd have called women prisoners who don't want to share cells and showers with male born rapists "dinosaurs" again and display his monumental misogyny again.

This is a great step forward. Not just for the safety of female prisoners but also shifting public perception of TW as "the most vulnerable" section of society.

The next stage will be when a white collar criminal TW gets put in a women's prison and sexually assaults a woman and they move to ban all TW. Because men don't belong in women's prisons whatever crime they have committed. It's infuriating that a woman or women will need to be harmed to make that point but it's the only way it's going to happen.