Telegraph: MoJ to ban transwomen (male to female) from women's estate - links with specific details

[ResisterRex]

KPSS has provided an accessible link to the Telegraph story (see their tweet) and say they will comment on more detail tomorrow. Here's part of the Telegraph story:

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/26/transgender-prisoners-convicted-violence-banned-womens-jails/

"The Ministry of Justice (MoJ) is toughening its stance, meaning that not only transgender women convicted of sexual assaults but also those jailed for violence will no longer be able to be held in mainstream women’s prisons.
Violent offences will include murder, attempted murder, harming a child, assault with intent to cause serious harm or with injury, endangering life, and harassment.
The new rules will also cover all transgender women with male genitalia and will apply regardless of whether transgender prisoners have a gender recognition certificate.
The MoJ said exemptions would only be made in exceptional cases and would also have to be <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/Iqojr/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/08/06/trans-prisoners-will-not-housed-women/" rel="nofollow" target="blank">signed off by ministerss."

Here's the KPSS short thread:

twitter.com/noxyinxxprisons/status/1629768643780255744?s=46&t=p4GrD7xZK4xup2YXGSOk7w

"This is an incredible achievement & is testimony to @MoJGovUK, @DominicRaab listening.
The new policy is out tomorrow. It covers prisons & approved premises, with separate guidance to follow for Youth Custody Services"

Good news. Healthcare next? Maybe eventually we can get policies safe enough that they can give out as many GRCs as they want without it putting women and girls at risk

The Raab policy

I wonder if it'll end up being called that. Perhaps not a bad idea if we then end up with a bekiiiind policy in future. It can be named after whoever thinks women are support humans for rapists.

It's not perfect but it's a hell of a push back. I'm sure it will be challenged as KPSS say. If so, maybe it'll get prominence come election time.

Would be interesting to see which of our "civil rights" and "equity" grifters and "charities" get behind such a challenge.

www.theguardian.com/society/2023/feb/26/transgender-women-male-genitalia-banned-from-womens-prisons#Echobox=1677432113

LOJ must be spitting feathers! Poor bloke. He’ll have to do another sad face video now. Even his own paper is doing sensible reporting. The only thing is he spent so long claiming IB was not trans, and then the guardian reports IB using female pronouns. It’s delicious.

It will be interesting to see who challenges this and how they spin it.

Also be interesting for politicians, particularly Labour politicians such as Nandy and Rayner, to have their feet held to the fire on whether they disagree with this new policy, if so why, and how do they justify offering up women prisoners as a sacrifice to violent, rapist men.

My view is that not only will Labour not reverse this but it will change the rest of public services. I don't believe Starmer et al will persist with trans supporting policies either. Expect it to get lukewarm after Sturgeon.

This gives me hope. At least it’s finally some movement in the direction of women’s safeguarding

While this is true, we know the percentage of TW who have had their penises removed is tiny. So saying no male genitalia is going to cover the vast vast majority. All of this is to be welcomed, while continuing to push for similar rules in healthcare settings and others.

I hope Nandy will publicly withdraw her support for child rapists getting to serve their sentences in women’s prisons.

This thread’s being screenshotted on Twitter, by the way. Everyone wave to the Misogynist Monitors!

Absolutely fabulous. Hospital wards next please. And no women police officers forced to strip search males.

Really? What's being screen shotted exactly?

"It's a dangerous idea to put male sex offenders in confined spaces with women"

??

And then presented how? I'm puzzled

This thread’s being screenshotted on Twitter, by the way. Everyone wave to the Misogynist Monitors!

Oh, I do hope they're able to cry harder

I'll gladly reiterate for the monitors: decent male people do not demand their own needs to be met at the expense of distress, trauma, sexual harassment and intimidation, sexual assault, (woman prisoner describing this in detail in the press today) and rape for females.

Other answers must be found. Acceptable collateral damage of females = zero

I feel like I'm misunderstanding, I can't see how this would make sense?

Why isn’t it just all crimes and all TW going to prison?

I quite agree. The number of rapes reported vs the number of rape convictions suggests there are large numbers of rapists who are not convicted of their crimes so why is the MoJ gambling with the safety of female prisoners.

It is a step in the right direction but I won't be happy until we have clear, exemption free policy which stipulates no man should ever be housed in the female prison estate. If the government wants to maintain legislation which creates the absurdity of 'legal sex' then they can deal with the potential consequences. They have an obligation to maintain the safety of all prisoners so they can sort it out.

Conviction rate for rape so low that you have to assume all males are pote

The fact that trans women think that they can be accepted as female when only approximately 8% of them have their genitalia removed is an insult to biological women. We need to be kept safe, and need safe spaces in all types of environments.

All male prisoners are potentially rapists, so few reported rapes result in conviction, and add in all the unreported rapes.

It's not safe to lock females up with males. State sanctioned rape, sexual assault, coversion, harassment, STDs, pregnancies etc.

It just shouldn't be something female prisoners need to worry about when they are the responsibility of the state.It should not be possible.

ZuttZeVootEeeVo · Today 12:59

zanahoria · Today 11:48
"The new rules will also cover all transgender women with male genitalia and will apply regardless of whether transgender prisoners have a gender recognition certificate."

How about all males?

A male with his dick cut off could still be a threat.
There seems to be this mentality that they cant exclude all males, and can only make exceptions when the public find out, and then only that particular subset of men.

We all can name men who claim to no longer have male genitalia who look, sound and behave exactly like every other man. But they are treated differently in law, for some reason.

This extensive Swedish study of gender reassigned males MTF (who had had surgery) found they retained the same violent offending patterns of ordinary men.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/

There are quite a few threads about this on facebook, and whilst many are really glad this has happened, most have real doubts it will last in practice ie it is a policy (though would be great if the 1823 act could be bought back).

Most women are saying they have no doubt Labour will win the next election (not because they are brilliant but because the Tories have lost credibility).

And that they will just shelve or actually abandon the policy. They are now so entrenched in their TWAW narrative, that not only will they not adopt this but will push for a revision of the UK GRA to align with the Scottish GRR (which will not be challenged by Labour) and then Wales will make the change as well.

So Lammy and all the others spouting the case by case basis I suspect are an indication of Labour policy.

Otherwise, given all the write ups of the miraculous recovery of Labour under Starmet because of dumping Corbyn, and now seen to be welcoming to Jewish members who had resigned etc., wouldn't they also be looking at all the women expelled from Labour for saying women are biological females?

So I think that Labour will be more intent on keeping on side those like the insane canvasser in Rosie Duffield's constituency, than trying to re-involve those they perceive as ageing dinasours.

This is being reported on Sky News now.

The phrase “male genitalia” has been spoken several times.

This is one of the few places where an inspection of what's contained in pants is pretty much standard. So even if your paperwork say female, ladypenises are going to get noticed.

I mean, there were all these comments about whether there should be pant inspections, and well, yes I think criminals are exactly the type of people for whom not taking them at their word, might be deemed appropriate.

It's almost ironic.

Please would anyone who has not already done so, go to petitions and sign the Sex-Matters petition to Parliament to update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic sex is biological, and not sex as modified by a GRC.

(Ignore the Gov. response so far saying everything is fine as it is. Look at Sex Matters website to see why not. )

I know they are saying this new prison policy will be regardless of a GRC, but they could be open to a legal challenge with the way the Equality Act interacts with the GRA. There have been a couple of EHRC committee meetings with a legal expert Dr Michael Foran, and other knowledgeable speakers, about this interaction being problematic.

RedToothBrush · Today 22:42
I mean, there were all these comments about whether there should be pant inspections, and well, yes I think criminals are exactly the type of people for whom not taking them at their word, might be deemed appropriate.

It's almost ironic.

Yes.

That assertion that they can’t be expected to check inside criminals pants is outrageous anyway as they think nothing of strip searching (innocent) black children , including a little girl who was having her period - making them spread their legs when naked, making them cough and then perhaps even poking about.

Well anyone who is male is a potential rapist, that's what potential means.

That doesn't mean that we can assume that most men convicted of other crimes have also committed rape.