Scotland PIE and LGB research thread

[EndlessTea]

I wanted to research how PIE was eventually exposed as a child abusers lobby group and how it went from being influential and widely endorsed by groups such as Liberty and even feminists such as Harriet Harman, etc, to being reviled, quashed and the word ‘paedo’ becoming synonymous with child abuser.

I started with Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paedophile_Information_Exchange and my hairs stood on end, when I discovered right away that “PIE was set up as a special interest group within the Scottish Minorities Group” and “in 1969, it was the country's first LGBT rights organisation.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outright_Scotland and both were founded by Ian Dunn. This suggests that historically in Scotland, gay rights activism and child abuser lobbying have been very closely entwined.

The reason for the uncanny feeling, is because, on reading Trans Britain, I was disturbed to discover that James Morton joined a group of activists who had lobbied for amendments to the Sex Offenders Bill 1996 (around the age of consent) and called themselves The LGB Equality Network. This group strongly pushed the T at the expense of safeguarding.

Also, the fact that LGBT Youth Scotland (established in November 1989 as the Stonewall Youth Project by members of the LGBT community in Edinburgh.) has such a culture of child [redacted word which rhymes with looming]
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4703808-comes-with-a-content-warning-reduxx-exclusive-two-survivors-allege-they-were-groomed-sexually-exploited-by-staff-at-scottish-lgbt-youth-charity I get the strong sense that the links aren’t so tenuous, when we ask ourselves “was James Morton just doing the bidding of sex offenders?”.

Yes about the lesbians. It’s very obvious that it was a puff piece for SMG when I think about it. The lesbians in a state of cosy domesticity, cooking together, holding hands and giving each other sweet little loving kisses - no one is going to argue about that. Then they talk about not wanting to lose custody of their children - no one is going to argue about the cruelty of separating mother and child. It definitely gives a soft and fuzzy slant to activists who want to abolish the age of consent.

Also, how times have changed- the misogyny of not wanting to be ‘effeminate’ was totally unchallenged.

I did think it was sweet though, the thought of everyone going to a disco in a shirt and plain sweater. Not exactly Studio 54 😂

I want to check out the newspaper thing.

I really need to stop being taken in.

This one?

And this guy on the left

Yes, I thought they looked very similar. If it's the same person it just backs up what we already know.

FURTHER THOUGHTS ON IAN DUNN AND SCOTTISH GAY RIGHTS CAMPAIGNING.

I am coming to the conclusion that Ian Dunn was a colossus of the Scottish gay rights movement, bestride everything, and I think it would be absurd to try to play down his legacy. The fact that he is presenting that Open Doors programme, is probably because of his own contacts, even though (I can’t remember where I read it now) that pissed some people off. He co-founded the Scottish Minorities Group, holding its first meetings in his parent’s living room in Glasgow and still felt entitled to steer SMG through its incarnations as the Scottish Homosexual Rights Group and Outright Scotland, until his death, he founded the newspapers, was constantly campaigning.

I know John Hein plays it down, calling it a ‘cult of personality’ and implying that Dunn was happy to take undue credit, but I believe he was massively influential.

Hein says about Dunn’s founding of PIE “he believed in the rights of sexual minorities to organise politically.”

I doubt his belief that child sex abusers, and presumably other illegal/harmful paraphiles, are just ‘sexual minorities’ who have the right to organise politically, was uninfluential.

In the photos, you can see that when Tim Hopkins registered it, Dunn signed as a director of the Edinburgh 50a Broughton Street Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual Community Project (he also appears to be a director of SHRG properties, which is now presumably dissolved) where Tim Hopkins also registered The Equality Network after Dunn’s death.

I have this thread on my list of things to catch up - it’s just hard to motivate myself to wade through the grimness so I really salute your, EndlessTea for all your work and commitment. Really glad the thread has been allowed to stand.

Not suggesting this is related beyond it being a Scottish LGBT org but it’s not worth a new thread - has anyone else noticed Pink Saltire is closing?

pinksaltire.com

Hey Tea, I found a document called Thon Wey by someone called Brian Dempsey that you should have a look. Also not sure if you've looked at companies house, it tells you who's been a director of which company and when.

I don’t think this is irrelevant. I think they might have links with LGBT Youth Scotland.

Brian Dempsey is an interesting one. From what Hein said, Ian Dunn managed to alienate everyone by the power of his massive ego, making everyone leave Outright Scotland (including, presumably Tim Hopkins) towards the end of his life, but it seems that Dempsey was loyal, remaining secretary to the end.

He was also a director of (now dissolved) SHRG properties with Ian Dunn, and is still a directer with Tim Hopkins and Ian Dunn registered Lesbian and Gay Community Project (50a Broughton Street)

files.websitebuilder.prositehosting.co.uk/fasthosts21629/file/thonwey-binder1postocr.pdf

Link to Thon Wey, check the bit about red herrings.

I’ve made a mistake. He Dempsey resigned from Brougham Street at the time of Dunn’s death

Nice find

Why thank you Tea.

This is a bit vague but I recall a flurry of stories in the Evening News from 1999 about gay charities attempting to influence kids. At the time I put it down to homophobia, which it was. But I then noticed that Rennie was working for Gay Mens Health in 1999 and questioned whether this was an early attempt by him to use a charity as a vehicle for his offending. I can't find the stories, it might take a bit of digging by someone with more time than me.

Hey @Greycats while reading through Thon Wey I was reminded that Sir Nicholas Fairbairn QC was the honorary Vice President of SMG - 1970-1974.

The thing that strikes me, is that he was a child abuser - he abused Robert Henderson QC’s daughter at his parties, but also - why was he Vice President of SMG if he had the kind of views that 20 years later, meant

“In a late-night Commons debate about the gay age of consent in 1994, Sir Nicholas was meanwhile called to order by the Speaker for delivering a drunken diatribe against homosexuality which included an obscene description of the mechanics of ‘sodomy’.” https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2732234/Revealed-The-Full-horrifying-truth-Sir-Nicholas-Fairbairn-paedophile-Margaret-Thatcher-s-side.html

Also, I wonder if there is a correlation between him leaving SMG and Ian Dunn and Michael Hanson starting up PIE as the first sub group of SMG in the same year?

So, Fairbairn links Henderson to the SMG and Fairbairn visited the Elm Guest House with Cyril Smith. The Daily Mail article talks about a Scotsgay obituary, presumably written by John Hein.

There is material in the archives, might be worth a visit.

Yes. Also, I would be interested to know if there are links to the abuse of The Bay City Rollers and Savile in Scotland, etc.

Annual Report there on their website.

They talk about not being allowed to apply for certain funding streams.

pinksaltire.com/annual-report/

Here’s something about Savile in Scotland, Bay City Rollers, etc https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/jimmy-saviles-creepy-visits-scottish-26674221

Thanks @ArabellaScott I have just started looking at this and I notice that they talk about ‘oor pride’ - I didn’t want to mention the link before I looked more into it @CryptoFascistMadameCholet but a couple of days before I notice that John Hein was on the board of Pride Saltire. He also registered a lot of orgs, I’d like to look into it more once my brain stops stalling at the junction and forcing me to take a long nap. I get the feeling of a bit of a wrestle for power, I know Hein had all these dodgy organisations, Putin’s funds, etc going through his address, but I also get a sense that Hein may have registered LGB orgs in order to hold power and control, perhaps around disagreements and feeling like he was being pushed out. I wonder if Tim Hopkins was the wrestler, because now being the victor, he was able to write Hein out of the story of Lark in the Park and Pride. Just speculating of course.

I have been trying to read this thread for quite some time this eve but keep getting bounced out of it. (Other threads are not doing this. ) it closes suddenly and I am out of Mumsnet. I have left a message in sitestuff.

It is a disturbing thread but one I do want to read!

God how weird

'I'd like to understand if LGBT + organisations in Scotland are still harbouring peadophiles' I'm with you on that @Greycats