Scotland PIE and LGB research thread

[EndlessTea]

I wanted to research how PIE was eventually exposed as a child abusers lobby group and how it went from being influential and widely endorsed by groups such as Liberty and even feminists such as Harriet Harman, etc, to being reviled, quashed and the word ‘paedo’ becoming synonymous with child abuser.

I started with Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paedophile_Information_Exchange and my hairs stood on end, when I discovered right away that “PIE was set up as a special interest group within the Scottish Minorities Group” and “in 1969, it was the country's first LGBT rights organisation.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outright_Scotland and both were founded by Ian Dunn. This suggests that historically in Scotland, gay rights activism and child abuser lobbying have been very closely entwined.

The reason for the uncanny feeling, is because, on reading Trans Britain, I was disturbed to discover that James Morton joined a group of activists who had lobbied for amendments to the Sex Offenders Bill 1996 (around the age of consent) and called themselves The LGB Equality Network. This group strongly pushed the T at the expense of safeguarding.

Also, the fact that LGBT Youth Scotland (established in November 1989 as the Stonewall Youth Project by members of the LGBT community in Edinburgh.) has such a culture of child [redacted word which rhymes with looming]
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4703808-comes-with-a-content-warning-reduxx-exclusive-two-survivors-allege-they-were-groomed-sexually-exploited-by-staff-at-scottish-lgbt-youth-charity I get the strong sense that the links aren’t so tenuous, when we ask ourselves “was James Morton just doing the bidding of sex offenders?”.

TheBiologyStupid thank you.

Thank you so much everyone for contributing to this, I am finding I am getting a lot of creepy feelings and quiet horror, hairs standing up. All the stuff about Celtic too. There is so much of it, it is overwhelming.

Just on the other thread about RMW he mentioned the comparison with Paedophiles blighting the lives of trans activist or gay people, and you look and you see they’ve been using gay rights as a cover for a long time. It seems to be a well-worn deflection tactic.

Just on the other thread about RMW he mentioned the comparison with Paedophiles blighting the lives of trans activist or gay people, and you look and you see they’ve been using gay rights as a cover for a long time. It seems to be a well-worn deflection tactic.

It's DARVO. Rather than blame the paedophiles trying to ride the coat tails of gay liberation RMW is blaming the people who recognised the paedophiles trying to ride the coat tails of gay liberation and accusing them of making paedophilia and homosexuality synonymous.

I don't think anyone posting on this board is confused about the difference but can see there are people who campaigned both for gay rights and paedophile acceptance.

That photo is the one that I remember.

That and that the National Library of Scotland had a laudatory exhibition about Ian Dunn.

www.scotsman.com/arts-and-culture/national-library-scotland-criticised-over-tribute-paedophile-campaigner-1423640

Another incident that always sticks with me is Eileen Fairweather. People knew but, like now, were intimidated and 'chilled' into being unable to follow through with their concerns. And look where we are now.

In 1979, Eileen Fairweather was working at Spare Rib, a radical-feminist magazine. She was young and new to journalism, but assigned to read Paedophilia: The Radical Case, in which Tom O’Carroll, later imprisoned for child-abuse, argued for lowering the age of consent to four. She recalls “anguished, earnest” discussions with feminist friends about what they should write about it. “I did draft something, arguing that the existing age of consent was not ‘patriarchal’, but protected children,” she says. “But I never even dared show it to anyone.” No-one back then realized the extent and brutality of child-abuse. And the pedophile movement had so thoroughly hijacked the gay movement that, if you said you were against “child sexual liberation”—as, outrageously, they put it—you were branded “anti-gay.” She says she sees “the same intimidation and paralysis of intelligence” with the transgender debate, with people terrified to express legitimate concerns about infiltration and safeguarding.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3804521-Helen-Joyce-taking-a-sabbatical-to-write-a-book-on-gender-ideology

I only had a quick look last night but I found at least one crossover between the hiding-in-gay-rights crowd and the hiding-in-boys-sports-crowd.
www.scotsman.com/news/horror-upon-horror-unfolded-worst-ever-abuse-trial-2443858

I presume the Edinburgh based Celtic East Boy’s FC is an off shoot of the Glasgow Celtic Boy’s FC?

There is a group (presumably some of whom I stumbled across on that Ranger’s forum) who are trying to get justice for all those boys - they have a Twitter account

I reckon if we could draw up a time line of all the convicted paedos from this lot plus a list of associates, they probably have oodles of data they could cross reference against…

The parallels RethinkingLife!

yes

twitter.com/spotlight_cfc66

Has anyone come across police officer Buist?

He won a Friend For Life award at the Glasgow Scotia Pride in 2002.
His force, Lothian and Borders were the force that investigated Rennie in 2007, leading to the 2009 convictions.

He was back out marching that summer at Edinburgh Scotia Pride, just a couple of months after Rennie’s conviction.

”Lothian and Borders Police have been clear that their investigations concerned James Rennie personally and not LGBT Youth Scotland as an organisation."

Only images I can find of Buist are very weird, to do with a knife amnesty?

I was looking at this obituary of John Hein https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/john-hein-emotional-tributes-pour-19519095 and the name Gary Otton piqued my curiosity. He describes himself as a ‘Sex Rights Campaigner’, which is pretty in yer face way of saying that he campaigns for the ‘right’ to get off rather than for anti-discrimination for members of a particular sex or orientation.

He published this book, about campaigning to repeal S28 http://garryotton.com/religious-fascism-the-repeal-of-section-28-garry-otton and it is pretty explicit that he sees the safeguarding kids in schools from being indoctrinated in sexual propaganda, as ‘fascist’, the Nazi font, etc. I don’t know anything about him, (he might not have known Hein was a pedophile)or how influential he has been, but I am curious to discover how child protection has been spun as far right extremism. Perhaps he has created some of the arguments?

Another thing, I believe that people go into politics for 2 reasons - either because they genuinely want to be part of making the world a better place, or because they want to game democracy to serve themselves and their cronies. If you google: random name + political role + sexual offence you are likely to get at least one hit, eg ‘Michael’ + Local counsellor + child abuse images. I bet at the time of devolution in Scotland, a whole set of abusers seized that opportunity to get into politics, so I imagine there was a lot of activity 1998-2004.

In the screenshot about the 2009 Edinburgh Pride (from here: www.polfed.org/WestMids/media/2020/gay-police-association-e-bulletin.pdf) it says Buist is from ASPS - Association of Scottish Police Superintendents?

www.scotland.police.uk/wellbeing/staff.html

Gary Otton says Hein was ‘fucking brilliant’

garryotton.com/john-hein

Possibly Buist’s 2007 Xmas police piss up (mid Rennie investigation timeline)

www.flickr.com/photos/hillviewcrowd/

Otton loves Nic, but curiously hasn’t tweeted since December:

twitter.com/garryotton

Which seems strange because you’d think section 35/ GRR and Kate Forbes would give him a LOT to tweet about…

catholicherald.co.uk/presbyterian-leader-accuses-scottish-secularists-of-anti-catholicism/

Thank you to everyone for posting. I've had an awareness of this since the Fettesgate thing in the 90's but it's so good to find other people who can see it too. We're not conspiracy theorists, are we? It seems so completely bonkers but then child abuse always does to ordinary people. I think we should absolutely build a connections time line.

Thanks for this. So Hein was basically a mentor for Otton as well as his editor of his Scottish Media Monitor in Hein’s ScotsGay that was to become the anti-S28 book. From what he says here, it seems that Otton holds anyone who seeks to protect kids in contempt and it would be really unlikely he didn’t have a permissive attitude towards child sexual abuse.

John Hein stepped in. He had ScotsGay Light and ScotsGay Heavy [wtf would be in the ‘heavy’ version?] each going out bi-monthly and I was quickly spread over two pages monitoring the media.

The Scottish Media Monitor attacked the self-righteous media for ten years before it ended up as my first book ‘Religious Fascism’. I delighted in parading the prudes in ScotsGay every month

[John MacLeod] sneeringly wrote that he was “doubtful if the majority – even a plurality – of Scotland’s gay population read…(ScotsGay)”. But he was wrong. Hein delivered ScotsGay to the Scottish Parliament and it was read most enthusiastically by many MSPs in parliament (this was reported in one newspaper by a reporter in the gallery) and str8 married authors like Christopher Brookmyre never missed an issue.

John was wise and clever man. He permitted; never censored. My writing took on a whole new lease of life because of John Hein and I’m eternally grateful. He helped me. He helped many people. He never judged.

Militant feminists at Glasgow’s gay centre also took exception to male sex workers advertising in ScotsGay and refused to put it on display. Hein didn’t budge. ‘Fuck ‘em’, he told me. He didn’t give a toss that the magazine couldn’t sit nicely on the top row of stationers John Menzies; he would never bend his principles. The ‘Meet Market’ of ads in the back pages reached out to every closet in remote parts of Scotland and to every fetishist wanting to share their desires. He left nobody out. He reached more people than any socially acceptable campaign group with eyes on a grant because peoples’ needs came before social respectability. He knew his audience. People who reached out for sexual reasons weren’t looking for platitudes from do-gooders. He gave them the sex first and any campaigning came after. But the social conservatives and closets didn’t always take too kindly to this liberal spirit. And many tried to take John Hein down.

None of the SNP leadership contenders make GO happy. I wonder what was SO different about Nic?

Paedos go wherever kids are accessible and they see vulnerabilities like poverty and marginalisation as a bonus because no one listens to them when they speak out.

It would be a nutso conspiracy theory to think there were a swathe of vulnerable kids being encouraged to hate their parents and run away to ‘glitter families’ that didn’t have Paedos in it somewhere.

This is a bit long but I promise you Hein is mentioned.
www.heraldscotland.com/news/12627513.tangled-web-that-distracts-attention-from-real-black-magic-circle/

And this. What on earth is going on here?
www.heraldscotland.com/news/12103628.edinburgh-man-is-czech-murder-victim/

I need to reread your first link sitting down with a notepad! Couldn’t follow it at all on the fly.

But yes, interesting news reports dating back to mid 90s. Do you have any other info on that part of the timeline @Greycats?

Hi all, I started to look into the (now deceased), links of how, between 1970-1974 Sir Nicholas Fairbairn (died 1995) was the Vice President of Dunn’s Sexual Minorities Group https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2732234/Revealed-The-Full-horrifying-truth-Sir-Nicholas-Fairbairn-paedophile-Margaret-Thatcher-s-side.html

and later went to the parties of Robert Henderson QC and abused Henderson’s daughter in front of him, for the first time when she was only 4. Henderson also abused her and facilitated others too.
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/victim-magic-circle-lawyer-tells-29093531

Henderson died in 2012 https://www.scotsman.com/news/obituaries/obituary-robert-henderson-qc-75-1597336 and it is interesting that his obituary mentions:
The lawyer would build his reputation as a defence advocate in a series of high-profile criminal trials after becoming a QC in 1982.

Bob was also hand-picked amongst a star team of advocates assembled by lawyer Len Murray to represent four Rangers and Celtic players charged over incidents during an Old Firm match. - It could be nothing though.

I have been having a lot of thoughts about this, about how the word ‘conspiracy’ is cartoonishly caricatured in most people’s minds, as are ‘monsterous paedophiles’.

To me, it seems that a culture of permissiveness, ‘good times’, ‘big characters’, drink and drugs, an ‘ah fuck it, nothing really matters’ attitude, is the perfect spawning ground for a paedophile ring.

It really contrasts with what we know about abusers being cunning, calculating, manipulative, playing the long game, etc, when grooming.

Its hard to square in your mind that a culture of blokes partying and getting off, can also be so organised, influencing legislation and so on.

I imagine a conspiracy to look ‘noir’, to have either sterile efficiency or cobwebby dungeons about it. I imagine cool analysis and whispered words like espionage.

I am thrown by all the fun, colour, ‘characters’ - the kind who people want to invite to the party to break the ice. That it is among the rainbows, glitter and good times that the wickedness is being perpetrated and plotted.

I know this isn’t Scotland specific, but I am thinking about how the Mermaid’s weekends were apparently a bit of a piss-up, and that picture of Haddock and Webberly obviously sozzled.

I think I give TAs and “sexual minorities” activists too much credit for being organised and together. In reality, I think the reason these people get away with so much is because they haven’t been audited yet. The sloppiness creates mountains of evidence, to the point it is daunting to get through.

Yep. It’s all very ‘in plain sight’ - the problem is there is just so much of it that no one pair of eyes can get sight of it all.