Scotland PIE and LGB research thread

[EndlessTea]

I wanted to research how PIE was eventually exposed as a child abusers lobby group and how it went from being influential and widely endorsed by groups such as Liberty and even feminists such as Harriet Harman, etc, to being reviled, quashed and the word ‘paedo’ becoming synonymous with child abuser.

I started with Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paedophile_Information_Exchange and my hairs stood on end, when I discovered right away that “PIE was set up as a special interest group within the Scottish Minorities Group” and “in 1969, it was the country's first LGBT rights organisation.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outright_Scotland and both were founded by Ian Dunn. This suggests that historically in Scotland, gay rights activism and child abuser lobbying have been very closely entwined.

The reason for the uncanny feeling, is because, on reading Trans Britain, I was disturbed to discover that James Morton joined a group of activists who had lobbied for amendments to the Sex Offenders Bill 1996 (around the age of consent) and called themselves The LGB Equality Network. This group strongly pushed the T at the expense of safeguarding.

Also, the fact that LGBT Youth Scotland (established in November 1989 as the Stonewall Youth Project by members of the LGBT community in Edinburgh.) has such a culture of child [redacted word which rhymes with looming]
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4703808-comes-with-a-content-warning-reduxx-exclusive-two-survivors-allege-they-were-groomed-sexually-exploited-by-staff-at-scottish-lgbt-youth-charity I get the strong sense that the links aren’t so tenuous, when we ask ourselves “was James Morton just doing the bidding of sex offenders?”.

Hugo Greenhalgh Used to write for the FT and now is editor of Openly News,
which, bizarrely, has a banner at the top making the crisis in Ukraine all about the trans. See pics

https://www.openlynews.com/profile/?id=003D000002SiAdXIAV

Pics added

I found these initial findings from the (Scottish Government and NHS funded) INCLUSION project in Gay Men’s Health:

Writers - Paul Matthews, Nick Laird, Allie Cherry, James Whyte, Alan Surgeon, Linda Thompson, Ann Mariott, Paul Robertson
^^
During August, three workshops were held in Glasgow to better understand the health needs and experiences of transgender people in Scotland. These were part of a range of initiatives by the INCLUSION Project; a partnership project working for LGBT health.
^^
The survey will be ready for distribution within the next couple of months and the key findings from this research will be available in 2004. Here’s a summary of findings from the days (one for transsexual women, one for transsexual men and a transvestite workshop).
^^
The term transgender as an all-encompassing umbrella term was viewed as being sometimes problematic because there is a huge range of diversity within the transgender label. It was felt that the categories of transsexual and transvestite being put together under transgender didn’t help with the understanding of the issues because both categories are very different. Education on transgender issues was felt to be the solution.
^^
Some of the most significant health-related issues for transsexual women (Male to Female) included; alcohol abuse, suicidal feelings, feeling stress about gender and disgust with body parts.
^^
Some of the most significant health-related issues for transsexual men (FTM) included, anxiety, fear of what people would think/say, suicidal feelings and distress about body parts.
^^
Self-harm and depression were also significant for trans women and trans men.
^^
Solutions to the problems faced by some trans women and trans men included; good access to clinical treatment including hormones and surgery, peer support and counselling.
^^
All of the participants in the transvestite workshop were accessing health services as heterosexual men and did not feel their transgender status was relevant in relation to this.
^^
Peer support was viewed as very important to the transvestite group.
^^
Transsexuals and transvestites can experience difficulties because of people making assumptions about sexuality and sexual expression.
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Transsexuals and transvestites can experience difficulties because in general people have very fixed ideas about what a man/woman should be like, i.e. 'not a real man'.
^^
Education on transgender issues was seen as a way of challenging assumptions.
^^
For further information on the transgender research, or for information on support for transgender people contact, Nick Laird https://www.gmh.org.uk/core/16/research.shtml

If the findings of this research found that it wasn’t useful to lump ‘transsexuals’ and transvestites together under the umbrella ‘transgender’, where did the directive come from to persist with it?

I’ve been thinking about the fact that both Tim Hopkins and Hugo Greenhalgh were the contacts for the OUTRIGHT ‘law reform’ focus groups. At the time Tom Hopkins would have been 37 and Hugo Greenhalgh only 20 in 1994. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/consenting-adults-who-love-in-fear-of-the-law-gays-want-equal-rights-marianne-macdonald-reports-on-their-campaign-1399430.html

In this research briefing it says:

Outright Scotland, the Scottish Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual Rights Group, summarised its view of the effects of the pre-1994 law as follows:
The current age of consent does not stop young gay men from engaging in sexual activity.
There is no evidence that the higher age of consent reduces the number of people who are
homosexually orientated.
The current law is rarely enforced in Scotland.
Criminalisation encourages a life of secrecy and deception for young gay people. It also
makes them vulnerable to blackmail.
The current law discourages young gay men from seeking advice about sexually
transmitted diseases.
One in five young gay men has attempted suicide at some time.
**
(Why introduce an equal age of consent? Outright Scotland, 1994. A survey by Gay Times in 1992 is cited in support of the last of these points)

Outright Scotland urged the introduction of an equal age of consent to avoid the negative consequences of the law which it perceived. The group also states that 'First and foremost, the issue is one of human rights. In a fair society we should have equal and fair age of consent laws for all young people'. Outright Scotland would like to see the UK come into line with other European Community member states who have, or are introducing, an equal age of consent.

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/RP98-68/RP98-68.pdf

I get the impression that Tim Hopkins was/is very aware of optics. I also wonder if the bogus suicide stats that Mermaids wheeled out were advised by the Equality Network, since that trick worked on Parliament as a clincher for changing the age of consent laws.

It bothers me that John Wilkes, who was on the board of the Equality Network 2008-2012 seems to be a misogynist and now works for EHRC in Scotland https://davidhencke.com/2017/07/21/revealed-the-man-who-sacked-a-woman-on-maternity-leave-is-now-head-campaigner-for-womens-equality-in-scotland/

I never quite realised why it was so difficult to write child protection laws.

Adults want unfettered access to adults and adult materials.
Children should have no access to sexual adult desires.
Adolescents want unfettered access to explore the adult sexual world.
Parents and schools are the last line of defence of children and adolescents access to the adult sexual world.

But how much sexual exposure should children and adolescents have?

Framing the question like this causes discomfort, a child now has less access to knowledge of homosexuality despite being fully aware of heterosexuality because pregnancy is obvious and only has one explanation.

So the question is framed as when should children learn about other sexualities.Which makes the question exploitable by others who would never even get a second looking in if the question had remained about child sexual exposure.

"Won't you think about the children? " is now a very derogatory statement but it is a fundamental question. The child's psychological wellbeing should be at the center of answering these questions as they are the ones the questions are about.

I've rambled but I think i agree with the poster who says there's no criminal network. It's just a bunch of blokes having fun who know when a question doesn't serve them rather than there being an agreement of any kind and another bunch of people who don't want to cause hurt. Combined with kids who are difficult to read and put into neat boxes or predict when they are ready for different parts of their development.

The way I see it, is that children need to learn where babies came from, how they are made and develop - procreation, in an age-appropriate way.

Children do not need to learn about any sort of adult sexuality.

However we have a network of ‘hard done by’ adults, who feel that it’s not fair that because procreation is heterosexual, they are getting left out of children talking about their intimate activities.

I personally don’t care about hard done by adults who are upset that their sexual activities, which have no relevance to procreation, are not being taught to kids.

I believe there is an unhinged notion of ‘equality’, which was born in the fight to first legalise gay sex between men, then bring down the age of consent twice, to make it ‘equal’ between heterosexual couples and homosexual male couples, that we are in a daft place, where the fact that reproduction is heterosexual is completely missing from the picture.

These ‘equality’ activists don’t seem very sympathetic towards women or children. It’s all “waaa waaa waaa it’s not fair it’s not equal” running through all of it, in trans activism and “equal reproductive rights”/“equal fertility rights” activism.

I believe that this culture of being hard done by , makes heterosexual parents the enemy and keeps these activists laser focused on “winning”, with absolutely zero care or concern for the resultant harms to women and children.

I think Ian Dunn’s lack of care or concern for the harms to children caused by child sexual abuse, to the point he let his home be used to distribute child abuse images (getting off is what counts guys) are not atypical.

Thats why ‘think about the children’ seems like a laughable idea.

Paedophile-ring leader and baby rapist, James Rennie was happy to use lesbians to legitimise his arguments though, of course (in his evidence given to the Scottish Government to repeal S28):

Johann Lamont: Is there any evidence of schools being unable to deal with bullying of youngsters who live in households where a parent is living with a partner of the same sex?
^^
Jamie Rennie: That certainly comes up, and when it has, schools have dealt with it—although everything depends very much on the staff in schools. However, often victims are doubly victimised, because they are expected to change their behaviour.
^^
An organisation in Edinburgh called the Lesbian Mothers Group has had to confront this problem on a number of occasions. It has been suggested that same-sex couples should minimise their interaction with schools, so that they do not draw attention to the fact that their child comes from a household in which there is a same-sex couple. Similarly, in relation to young men and women who are bullied at school, it has been suggested recently at an East Lothian school that a young man should arrive at school five minutes late, leave five minutes early and spend lunch time in the library to minimise the victimisation that he suffers.

I doubt that this sadistic predator gave a shit about a young man being bullied either, he’d happily do worse.

Today's article from Wings -

'LGBT Youth Scotland is currently the subject of a live police investigation over its involvement in a second major child-abuse scandal in little over a decade.'

Scottish Police LGBTI association are fundraising for them.

wingsoverscotland.com/the-thin-pink-line/

Is that really so surprising, though? the whole allure of evil is based on the fact that it LOOKS like fun. Satan has all the best tunes, as the old saying goes. If evil was all sterile and dark, no one would find it difficult to be good.

Thanks for this Arabella. I had a sobering moment when I saw this madness. I am currently ill and want to add to what you’ve provided when my eyes can handle it.

Yes. If you look at the LGBT Youth Scotland website, it looks so friendly and joyous, the fonts, colour and everything, that you could easily overlook the red flags.

Hope you feel better soon, Tea.

Thank you!

I had a bit of a re-think about the skewing of things by reading obituaries which brings out their characters and glosses over their harms, after reading on Twitter discussions about John Hein on Sam Cowie’s threads about the police fundraising for LGBT Youth Scotland.

The most troubling tweet about Hein was this:

“I really don’t want to go into every detail. But abiding memories , standing in his horrendous kitchen watching kids around 12-16 yrs of age walking around semi naked. He also had a do not enter room. Low playing music and almost completely blacked out. God knows what went on …”

This was his flat at this address and there are still many companies registered there.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15811396.edinburgh-neighbourhood-home-hive-illegal-activity-money-laundering/

Not sure if you've already shared this Tea, but if not this belongs in this thread. Hope you're feeling better.

www.bbc.co.uk/archive/open-door--the-scottish-minorities-group--glad-to-be-gay/z4f7cqt

Thanks Greycats. I have been having trouble finding out about that.

I have only just managed to get th ‘Open Doors’ documentary to play and I am immediately having so many reactions!

1. Firstly - bloody hell Ian Dunn was seriously posh, I can see what Hein meant. I wonder if this is part of what enabled him to be such an authority figure and able to get so much sway, able to push that Overton window.
2. In the programme they call it the ‘Scottish Minorities Group’ not the ‘Sexual Minorities Group’.
3. Jean Marcum (?) of the Brooke Advisory Centre is doing that ‘completely clueless about male sexuality’ thing women often do - even with her position 🫤 of talking about needing ‘company’, ‘affection’ and ‘gentle touch’. She is speaking to a man who is into destigmatising all sexual expression, from what i have gathered this includes non-consensual acts, who has a thing about urine and faeces. But of course all fellas want to do is hold hands. Ffs.

• Jean Malcom

How weird I’d been misreading. It is the Scottish minorities

Open Doors is very sweet though, even though it’s staged.

There's a lot about lesbians in it, which is intruiging. I might be seeing things but is the guy buying a newspaper the same man as the one in the 1983 Newsnight documentary about PIE?