Trans and losing my mind...

[bluepetergeneration]

Posting here in good faith. And I'll leave that at that.

I'm a TS. I was born male. I don't normally post on mumsnet but I started using it as I have a 1 year old DD. I won't tell my whole life story, that would be self indulgent, so I'll just say what I came here to say.

I'm sick to death of my community. I'm sick of the misogyny. I'm under no illusion that I'm a woman or ever will be. I transitioned when I was very young so I pass, but I still now only use female bathrooms when there's no other option (such as a disabled bathroom- I would feel unsafe in the mens). What I have is a disorder- it was crippling- and now I live my life so that I can actually enjoy it and not feel 'wrong'.

The idea of self-ID sickens me, and I'm tired of having to have the same conversations over and over again with other trans people who accuse me of being some kind of self hating transsexual just because I care about the safety of women. I also care about the safety of my kid. Partly because I'm worried she'll be in danger because I'm trans, and also because I don't want her to get caught up in all these weird messages that being trans isn't a disorder around dysphoria (which it is).

I guess I'm posting this to say that in this fight, trans people with genuine dysphoria who aren't delusional will be standing right beside you.

Also a plea to not paint all of us with the same brush. You can fight for the rights of trans people (like me, I should be able to present female and not get attacked, and when I was in my late teens and still looked a bit male I did get attacked) and also be gender critical

You know, I have again read this thread over and I think I can answer which of these was likely to be ‘the compromise’.

”It really seemed like either telling women to suck eggs OR it really was a sleight of hand way of saying 'just accept some males for now and let's work on the future'....”

It really was both! We were told that we had to accept the status quo and just work towards the hardline. Like we aren’t doing that already? And that we should be doing all these things that we already are individually or in our groups - speaking reasonably and persuading others and working with other groups and committees, and listening and doing it endlessly. Like we aren’t doing that already?

It was done in a way that was discordant. It was being ‘handled’ by someone who seemed to think they knew something that we didn’t and answers were evasive and not direct. But when you read back, it is actually quite clear.

So, the ‘compromise’ really is to hold tight with what we are doing (well fuck? Whodathunkit?) until we reach that ‘hardline’. But also speak nicely on MN FWR to males who ignore our boundaries and stop saying ‘no’ like mean women.

Which really does equate to ‘being taught how to suck eggs’ while being told to accept some males into female single sex spaces.

Fuckwittery at play here

I think there are examples of the following on this thread:

1. Women saying no to men is a hate crime.
2. Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.
3. Women should always be grateful to men for everything.
4. Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

10. The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad. 11. Whatever women suffer from, it is worse when it happens to men. 12. Women’s ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry. 13. Angry women are crazy. Angry men have trouble expressing themselves. 14. Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent. 15. Men are the default human. Women are strange subhuman others. 16. Everyone owns and controls women’s bodies except the women themselves.

Thats pretty good going really.

You’re right there @RedToothBrush add the emotional manipulation, gaslighting and insults from the same posters and you’ve got a perfect example of the rules of misogyny

11. Whatever women suffer from, it is worse when it happens to men

Really struck me. We are supposed to acquiesce when a male says they fear male violence in the male toilets. Whilst ignoring that staggering numbers of women have already experienced male sexual violence sometimes multiple times.

The message is that ‘Their fear is more serious than our fear’

Absolutely.

Have you ever heard anyone say to a trans person 'reframe your trauma'?

Of course not.

We only say that to the subhumans when they aren't serving properly.

We are supposed to acquiesce when a male says they fear male violence in the male toilets. Whilst ignoring that staggering numbers of women have already experienced male sexual violence sometimes multiple times.

yes.

And I am all for being blunt and being mean and telling males repeatedly that they need to stop using women as either support resources or shields to allow those women to access the spaces they need.

Before I left Twitter about 5 (?) years ago, I told a TRA bro, who was gently explaining to me the needs of men in frocks..
"NO; instead get off your lazy arse and work to make men's bathrooms a safe and inclusive place."
He was dead shocked and really I'm just a mean Lesbian after all, putting women first

twitter.com/RozKaveney/status/1628907461049479168

You've done plenty for all women? Well that's one ragingly narcissistic way of looking at over 40 years of making women uncomfortable and fearful in their own spaces, Roz...

@nilsmousehammer

I've just read your post from the 22/2/23 at 18.15.
I totally agree with every word you say. The best account I have seen of this situation. 👏

If 'people exist in several dimensions' I'd like to exist in one where they sleep for nine hours every night and ice cream is free.

What a liar.

Always manages to put h’’self first once getting in with women.

Oxford educated poet Roz? Shares women's oppression fucking how?

Bad hair days do not fucking count.

Sorry for swears. On the rag. It does bring out the biological fucking essentialist in me.

Settling in to read this very long thread, that I missed. I've only read the OP. I can imagine how it might turn out, judging by the length. But let's see!

Kaveney says it all when talking about 'humiliation '. Its not about saftey - if kaveney can enter womens spaces, so can any man. A man wanting to hurt Kaveney can follow him into a quiet toilet.

The bottom line is its humiliating when kaveney is reminded that hes male. He knows that its far more likely that he will go unchallenged in the mens spaces than told to leave. In that moment he knows hes a man and knows everyone around him knows it to.

Oh this was an unusual one @Ereshkigalangcleg, the OP listened carefully to women's arguments, concluded they would stop using women's spaces and undertook to persuade other men to be more accepting of their gender non conforming brothers.

ONLY JOKING!

The OP said we were big meanies and flounced

😄

I have been the victim of coercive control and abuse and I can see the parallels between that and my abuser very clearly. Told I am abusive because I don’t agree, tone policed, accused of micro aggressions until I was policing my every word myself, and became too scared to open my mouth. Well it didn’t work then and it’s not working here.

This. It's not an uncommon experience on FWR.

Oh this was an unusual one @Ereshkigalangcleg, the OP listened carefully to women's arguments, concluded they would stop using women's spaces and undertook to persuade other men to be more accepting of their gender non conforming brothers.

ONLY JOKING!

The OP said we were big meanies and flounced

Not quite finished, have seen the OP flounce but not read all the way to the end yet to see if the other MTF popped back to gloat about using women's spaces a bit more, or if there was more pandering.

if the other MTF popped back to gloat about using women's spaces a bit more

Haha of course that happened. So predictable you could set your watch by it.

It's like reading enid blyton. Once you've read one you've read them all.

Ladies you are too funny. Nothing proves they are men more than their complete inability to listen to women.
self-absorbed tw*t's.

😁

Depends on if it's an original or one of the rewritten versions 😉
Just been catching up on this thread and I'd like to thank the posters for some of the most clearly articulated explanations of why we say NO to males in female spaces I've read for a while.
And @TinselAngel I've followed the Widows thread for a long time and reading your experiences made it clear to me, that whatever sympathy I might have once had for gender non-conforming men, the knowledge of the repercussions for the women involved means I stand with my sisters.
Thank you for your continued bravery.

😘

Isn't it just! They don't realise we have heard all of this many many many times before. If not the same words on the same topic, the tone deafness, the inability to comprehend, the full of themselvesness... It's all too familiar.