Let Women SPeak - Australia & NZ tour

[ZombieMumEB]

I am so excited that this is coming to Australia - I will hopefully be attending.

Anyone else?

How much clearer can she be? If she tells them what to do or not do, the next thing we will have is her being accused of being their leader. But she isn't because they are nothing to do with her.

That was specifically what they're going for - above it was said (by Minirrriot, I think, but I'm not 100%) that KJK telling them to stay away would work because Trump telling his supporters to stay away worked. KJK is the "Trump" in this situation, apparently, and hence responsible for their actions.

Ach what a shame, poor @Minirrriot your massive whinge came too late.

Ah so you're just talking about the same denouncement. Yeh, whatever then...I've said before that she needs to specifically just simply say, don't bother coming. This stops the furore, speculation and controversy - whether the Nazis then come or not, they don't/ can't feel they are being tacitly condoned by KJK and no one can say they are being credibly.

It's clear that this needs tackling NOW but it's also clear it's not being tackled or going to be. And now we've moved on to excusing violence against indigeneous women - she was manhandled by man, do you not have eyes? To be honest, this woman may not even have protested, had the Nazis not turned up and not been denounced.

Also I quite feel like protesting her (KJK) myself now - and I've been gender critical since 2015. To me, this part of the gender critical movement and her part in it is clearly becoming more toxic by the minute. And no, I don't anymore think it's becoming more toxic because she's effective - I think it's because, SHE is toxic.

I've waited to say this because I was so sure that after the fascist scum turned up she would specifically address this, I watched the whole damn speech yesterday where she made the video all in black - yet, not a peep. Yeah okay then. Whatever. Enjoy your well-funded trip around the world KJK, don't worry about the harms the controversy you court does to women and the gender critical movement.

At such a vital time as well, when more people are thinking about and considering this issue. It was never supposed to be about hate - it was always supposed to be about equality. I'm simply not condoning the flirting with fascism and the hypocrisy I now see, especially not when this is supposed to be about women and now an indigeneous woman clearly getting mauled by burly MALE officers is okay, simply because she is on the wrong side? That's not a male TRA you know, that's an actual woman getting manhandled there!!!! JFC!!!

She has denounced them @Minirrriot . Repeatedly and vehemently.

At what point is it going to be enough for you?

I am genuinely wondering if the far right infiltrated Mumsnet now? You're not a bunch of 4chan trolls triggering "snowflakes" but that is what this is coming across as

Really. What a shock, you accusing women of being far right.

Please do go and protest at her events, @Minirrriot go for it.

I'd also like to ask you the same question that I asked another poster - what advice or protocols would you suggest for security and the police for people (male or female) that push through cordons towards the women speaking? What should they do to intercept them? Or should they not tackle them at all and let them do whatever they want to the women speaking?

That's not a male TRA you know, that's an actual woman getting manhandled there!!!! JFC!!!

OMG!!!!! Chill the fuck out!!!! KJK isn't a fascist!!!!!!

And why can I not Ask a poster to not behave like tosser, but that poster can say I am condoning domestic violence, am gaslighting and … well a whole host of other things?

@gwrachod

there are plenty of normal speed videos that show what they show.
I wasn’t there, sadly. But I will point out what I saw in the videos. You are of course free to disagree.

I would love to be able to go to a LWS event because when I watch the videos of these incredibly Brave women speaking their incredibly Brave words it makes me happy that they have this platform. Even if it is marred by a threatening mob, and in some cases two. And frequently people who barge towards the speakers.

It is free countries she is holding these events in. Isn’t it? People are free to gather as they please, with permits for organised events?

The police (and/or security) must make their decisions regarding the actions of intruders, aggressive intruders, protestors and other groups who rock up - uninvited.
Note: neither the TRA’s or the neo-nazis were invited. I reckon KJK don’t regard herself as allies with the TRA’s either, yet they show up to every darn event 🤷🏻‍♂️
curious, that.

Anyway, I hope I will continue to disgust people at this level. Perhaps with a gif?

Outside of the correct level of denouncement issues, she's got Australian Feminists onto the front page, which as Angie Jones said - is the first time in 20 years.

So not quite sure what damage it is that had been done. She's got them to prove her point about men in female spaces. Men in pink and blue and men in black. All still men.

@Minirrriot
Ah so you're just talking about the same denouncement. Yeh, whatever then...I've said before that she needs to specifically just simply say, don't bother coming. This stops the furore, speculation and controversy - whether the Nazis then come or not, they don't/ can't feel they are being tacitly condoned by KJK and no one can say they are being credibly.

Why is KJK responsible for the actions of these men?

Why is your focus on her, and not on these men?

Women are not responsible for how men behave.

I have seen several Clips from different angles, and to me it does not look like she is pushed down.

In that processed clip, to me it looks like the police officer behind her tackles her and ends up pulling/pushing her down, but I'm reserving judgement until I see it at clearly natural speed, with more context. The low frame rate isn't sped up (I think), but gives the impression of it being a slow-motion replay of something faster, making it look faster.

Doesn't seem like clearly excessive force - they DO have to actually be able to restrain her, and she's not making it easy for them.

Going back a bit, to this key question:

Should they just have let her do whatever she wanted? At what point do you think it would have been reasonable to restrain her?

In this case the point of the action is the reaction - in this case the reason to attempt to breach security is not to do direct harm, but to provoke a reaction which can then be used.

Something on that topic here, published the other day: https://newdiscourses.com/2023/03/mid-level-violence/

In this strategy, agitators will engage in behavior that, if accepted, moves one of their mass-line agendas along or that, if resisted, provokes a reaction that can be framed as an unjust overreaction (“wound collecting” or “crybullying”). They are masters at this. In fact, it’s Antifa’s bread-and-butter tactic, and its goal is always to put its target into a dilemma of giving in and demoralizing themselves or reacting and thus being portrayed as having overreacted.

But of course the security and police can't rely on that - they can't rely on attackers simply being provocateurs trying to get a security reaction - they do have to actually do what is necessary to defend the women and hold people back. Even when the attacker is also a woman - a "block aggressors unless they're women" strategy has a fairly clear exploitable safeguarding loophole!

The presence of police and security does sadly let the provocateurs push their luck even further though - they know they wouldn't be able to get away with that sort of direct scuffle with total civilians - rather you'd see the sort of "I'm not touching you!" in-your-face thing described in that New Discourses segment; you may recall it from the anti-Dave Chapelle protest involving tambourine exorcism woman.

Please don't be disingenuous I have repeatedly said that my issue is twofold, 1) She hasn't told them they are not welcome - so no, she hasn't denounced and 2) She has not yet responded to them turning up.

The denouncement you refer to I acknowledge but that was before the event and she did not tell them not to come, she said "it was preposterous they exist in 2023 etc..."- as far as I am aware? Or has there been another denouncement - another poster told me apparently not?

I've been very clear about what I (and many others) feel would be adequate in this situation - simply saying to the scum you are not welcome at my events, I don't need your support loudly and clearly would do and would make the point to most sane thinking people that she is not aligned with Nazis in any way, doesn't sympathise, or is not so zealous about this cause that she actually thinks they are better than the TRAs etc...

But she won't say that and I don't understand why, there is no point to prove here. The mad part of the left will think what they want regardless yes, but we are not talking about the rabids, we are talking about gender critical lefties, such as myself (i.e what I consider to be the proper left) and normal people, i.e most people whether they are left or right. Aside from the TRAs, who always object, no matter what, that is who is objecting to this, because it is objectionable.

And to the poster who says I am inferring that she is the Trump in this situation, yeah, kind of actually, if people are wrongly feeling enabled by her, welcome at her rallies - this is EXACTLY what happened with Trump - but at least, in the end he addressed the damn Nazis. Initially, they absolutely saw an "in" with him, even though he had never expressly said he was a Nazi - so why would that be, could you be doing it wrong perchance? If they (Nazis) see that and you don't address it, then yeah you are enabling them.

To add further because I feel I should explain my position in case you think I am some sort of bad faith actor - I also (and have always struggled with this) find it objectionable some of the platforms KJK has appeared on and with this new context, this is also part of my current position.

There's also no reason for it, when hard lefties such as George Galloway are also gender critical and he even has a weekly political show with guests - MOATS? He has been gender critical for a good few years now - why has she never ever heard of this or attempted to get a hearing on far left channels? I know George doesn't go in for purity politics...so it can't be that he wouldn't have her.

There are communist and socialist channels outside of the neo-liberal bubble that have always been gender critical you know, I've personally written articles on the subject for Morning Star newspaper - I wouldn't think to court far right media.

You think nazis are now legit supporting women's rights and they think they have an 'in' with KJK?

Fucking hell, @Minirrriot I think you need to take these demands to KJK herself. There's nothing I or anyone here can do about meeting your multiple demands or answering your questions.

KJK does a phone in show - it's free. You should call her and put these demands to her directly.

especially not when this is supposed to be about women and now an indigeneous woman clearly getting mauled by burly MALE officers is okay, simply because she is on the wrong side? That's not a male TRA you know, that's an actual woman getting manhandled there!!!! JFC!!!

She was not mauled or manhandled. She was deflected away from her target which was KJK. KZK was in the middle of a sentence.
She was striding at some speed (though not running) towards KJK, and did not take much notice of the first chap that gently (yes, really) tried to steer her away from that trajectory.

I am glad that the speakers are kept safe in a calm and efficient manner. That was not the case at an event just prior, so security had to take that into account.

To twist this observation into me condoning domestic violence is something I do take umbrage with.
But ultimately, I have had YEARS of experiencing this exact type of abuse, and have become fairly hardened to it. Often it culminated in a physical attack of some sorts, and at least that is out of the question here online.

But it does not go unnoticed, here on a board for feminist issues and specifically on threads regarding the issue of women’s ability to speak out regarding their safety when men becomes the priority - even men in dresses.

Also I quite feel like protesting her (KJK) myself now - and I've been gender critical since 2015. To me, this part of the gender critical movement and her part in it is clearly becoming more toxic by the minute.

You could kill two birds with one stone and phone in on the next TERF talk to let her know how you feel and also ask her is she considers herself part of the GC movement. I don't think she describes herself as anything other than a woman's rights campaigner. I wouldn't describe myself as GC either, I'm more of a gender abolitionist.

Your continued attempts to insist she is somehow part of a shared movement and her actions are reflecting badly on you is giving me "insecure person in a dysfunctional relationship" vibe, they seem to live by the push/pull of "fuck off, don't leave me". The lefty feminists don't want her but they can't let her go either. Time to grow up and leave her alone.

More than happy to do so, when is it, how do I access please?

She was mauled. I've seen the original footage. So have you. She did not "walk into his fist" as the saying goes.

More than happy to do so, when is it, how do I access please?

If your sole source of info about KJK wasn't the online sin list prepared by AGCL you would know.

https://www.standingforwomen.com/terf-talk-tuesday

There you go. Looking forward to hearing your call.

Does your google not work @Minirrriot

You can't find links, you can't find KJK's you tube channel, you can't find the latest denouncements. It's not hard, it is all over twitter. I suppose you won't be able to find that either?

Get on duckduckgo

Why on earth would I know when a weekly? show involving a woman I don't blindly follow or hero worship, unlike some, is? I've said this before, in fact I've always said it, I support the premise of the action, so only have supported the work and kept up with gender critical developments which would include KJK and have supported in that sense up til now, regarding one issue.

Also, I genuinely never have seen this "sin" list you speak of, though I have heard others reference it. Who are the bloody AG whatever, what does this acronym stand for? I know WPUK and FPW and the Actual Gender Critical Left and radical feminist individuals such as Bindel - and that is all I know.

No, she didn't walk into anyones fist. Nor was she mauled. She tried to aggressively push through a cordon to reach the women speaking, in order to disrupt. Much like a punter trying to get into a club they've been refused entry to, she was then bounced and removed. She made a scene whilst that was happening.

And, really, so bloody what. Security and the police were there to stop people approaching the women speaking. That's what they did, which is what they were there for.

She did, actually. Except they were not fists. Watch again.

Not sure if you have seen the same Clips as me. Try to find the one where Lydia is Walking from some distance away putting the flag around her shoulders.
Watch what the first security guy does, then the following.

I am not actually writing this because I think you will watch it.
But I want to point out the language you use of her (Lydia) Walking into his fists.

This is a very, very different situation to someone trapped in a dv relationship. I don’t think your analogy is any good.