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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Let Women SPeak - Australia & NZ tour

1000 replies

ZombieMumEB · 11/02/2023 06:41

I am so excited that this is coming to Australia - I will hopefully be attending.

Anyone else?

Let Women SPeak - Australia & NZ tour
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58
IwantToRetire · 20/03/2023 16:59

Does anyone else think it isn't worth spending the time and taking up space on a thread to respond to KJK is a Nazi because she doesn't think like me / us posts?

Surely better to ignore them and share relevant information and links, than endlessly replying back the same things? We know their posts are fabrication. And those saying aren't going to change their views. It encourages them if you reply.

Let them start their own thread where the one or is it two of them can exchange fairy stories. And leave them to talk to themselves.

Just a thought.

BoreOfWhabylon · 20/03/2023 17:00

Sky News Australia weighing in on the side of KJK and the women

Helleofabore · 20/03/2023 17:02

turbonerd · 20/03/2023 16:23

@Helleofabore
His own page is in Norwegian and the rest was lazily from Wikipedia, so it was read with the flavour from his own page in mind.

My take is that I don’t know if his criticism of Soros or Gates amounts to full blown antisemitism or more a marxist criticism of obscenely wealthy men who undoubtedly has a lot to say in how the world spins around.
But more often than not that seems to go together.

The vaccine scare mongering is not completely crazy either, remembering the Astra Zeneca tragedies (3 women nurses died in my country before they halted it and used only Phizer + the one I forget), + the fact that the vaccines are not and cannot be 100% safe for all and that debate was supressed by much media.

He (Steigan) has free speech as one of his big tenets. I support that, even crazy ideas and ideologies. We must be able to have everything out in the open.
I don’t support incitement to violence nor discrimination, and I can’t yet work out if he does.

thank you again turbo. I didn't find anything either in my search that showed the anti-semitism and didn't know if I was missing something big.

I too would not support incitement to violence nor discrimination, and I didn't find anything that was solid that linked him to it. He really did seem more like a person who supported free speech and took advantage of changes proposed or happening in Norway to do a conference on gender ideology.

How interesting though is it that KJK's wikipedia page has been updated over the past months and this paragraph has been deleted:

"In February 2019, Keen traveled to Norway and posed for a photo with Hans Jørgen Lysglimt Johansen, a far-right Hungarian politician."

And after that version in October 2022, it was amended because it was this in January 2023:

"In February 2019, Keen traveled to Norway to speak at a red-brown Mot Dag conference alongside Hans Jørgen Lysglimt Johansen, a far-right Norwegian politician and Holocaust denialist, who she took a selfie with. Keen later said she didn't know who Lysglimt was.[2][42][43]"

Which was clearly bollocks because she wasn't 'alongside Hans Jørgen Lysglimt Johansen' for anything except a selfie.

Now it has been deleted. Yet is still being used as a blunt instrument to harm her despite any lack of evidence.

I shall wait though. That evidence might yet be posted. After all @Onnabugeisha has said it happened in their post Sunday 19 Mar at 11.16.

"There’s the selfie of her with Holocaust denier Hans Johansen when she attended a known anti-Semite conference."

Surely someone wouldn't post so confidently of something they had no evidence at all for? That would indeed be dishonest!

Helleofabore · 20/03/2023 17:07

IwantToRetire · 20/03/2023 16:59

Does anyone else think it isn't worth spending the time and taking up space on a thread to respond to KJK is a Nazi because she doesn't think like me / us posts?

Surely better to ignore them and share relevant information and links, than endlessly replying back the same things? We know their posts are fabrication. And those saying aren't going to change their views. It encourages them if you reply.

Let them start their own thread where the one or is it two of them can exchange fairy stories. And leave them to talk to themselves.

Just a thought.

I think that this thread is where people will come to look for discussion on all aspects of KJK's visit to Australia and NZ. Currently, KJK is very active in trying to rally people around Moira Deeming and for that, the discussion about the slurs and the lies are important.

For Moira to be harmed in this way, is the chilling effect for all involved in the next two events in Australia and the two in NZ.

However, if Zombie would like to not have this discussion here, then I will respect that.

DameMaud · 20/03/2023 17:11

IwantToRetire · 20/03/2023 16:59

Does anyone else think it isn't worth spending the time and taking up space on a thread to respond to KJK is a Nazi because she doesn't think like me / us posts?

Surely better to ignore them and share relevant information and links, than endlessly replying back the same things? We know their posts are fabrication. And those saying aren't going to change their views. It encourages them if you reply.

Let them start their own thread where the one or is it two of them can exchange fairy stories. And leave them to talk to themselves.

Just a thought.

Yes, I wrote something exactly like this on the other current KJK thread IWantToRetire.

I'm starting to think responding so much is paying into people's hands- into the exact game they want to play. Which is to distract from what actually happened that was powerful and important on the day of these events. The women talking.

I do understand the value of arguing and challenging, but I agree that it is not going to change those posters minds, and for lurkers who are new/not very aware of what it's all about- they'u be left with the argument and

IwantToRetire · 20/03/2023 17:12

But they haven no knowledge of what actually happened.

They are just hijacking the event and this thread to repeat their dreary we are right, you are all wrong.

IMO

IwantToRetire · 20/03/2023 17:16

See there is already a thread for those who think we need re-education!
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4767139-what-if-youre-all-wrong-about-kjk-even-her-own-security-have-serious-concerns

Is that the one you meant DameMaud?

FOJN · 20/03/2023 17:17

IwantToRetire · 20/03/2023 16:59

Does anyone else think it isn't worth spending the time and taking up space on a thread to respond to KJK is a Nazi because she doesn't think like me / us posts?

Surely better to ignore them and share relevant information and links, than endlessly replying back the same things? We know their posts are fabrication. And those saying aren't going to change their views. It encourages them if you reply.

Let them start their own thread where the one or is it two of them can exchange fairy stories. And leave them to talk to themselves.

Just a thought.

You are absolutely right. Every time I post on one of those threads I feel annoyed with myself for feeding it.

MarchXX · 20/03/2023 17:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Bosky · 20/03/2023 17:29

DameMaud · 20/03/2023 17:11

Yes, I wrote something exactly like this on the other current KJK thread IWantToRetire.

I'm starting to think responding so much is paying into people's hands- into the exact game they want to play. Which is to distract from what actually happened that was powerful and important on the day of these events. The women talking.

I do understand the value of arguing and challenging, but I agree that it is not going to change those posters minds, and for lurkers who are new/not very aware of what it's all about- they'u be left with the argument and

I agree with this:

"Which is to distract from what actually happened that was powerful and important on the day of these events. The women talking."

but not with this:

"lurkers who are new/not very aware of what it's all about - they'll be left with the argument and . . . they haven no knowledge of what actually happened."

They will have "knowledge of what actually happened" because unsupported allegations are being refuted (or is that "rebutted"??) with referenced arguments.

They can follow them up if they wish and make up their own minds.

It's not just a case of "X says this" then "Y says that" ad infinitum.

I do agree with your first point though. We could be spending more time on the substance of the speeches, not just those from Melbourne either.

It would take some discipline as we don't know the names of the women and references like "5th woman at Perth" make it hard work to follow up.

Links with time-stamps (if Mumsnet does not strip out time stamps?) would work.

I think we also tend to respond in the first instance to "performance" and how impressed we are by the "stage presence" of particular speakers.

Other speakers might make less of an impression in that respect but still have interesting, important or powerful things to say but, conveyed with less pizzazz, they can be easily overlooked.

DameMaud · 20/03/2023 17:31

IwantToRetire · 20/03/2023 17:16

See there is already a thread for those who think we need re-education!
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4767139-what-if-youre-all-wrong-about-kjk-even-her-own-security-have-serious-concerns

Is that the one you meant DameMaud?

Yes. Sorry. My last response did that bloody annoying cutty off thing after long typing and I've lost the will now!

Basically, just saying, yes, I don't want to let the important stuff get lost. It feels a bit like being played!

Sometimes the best response is to get back quickly to the source- the speeches, the achievements of the event. They speak for themselves and show the ' bad association issues' for what they are.
The media is playing this game- they are not talking/showing the actual women speaking. So I just think it wou

DameMaud · 20/03/2023 17:32

And again!!!!

I'll get my coat

BoreOfWhabylon · 20/03/2023 17:35

NZ Herald. In which kjk denounces the Nazis
activist Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull steadfast in coming as Immigration NZ reviews entry

DameMaud · 20/03/2023 17:39

Anyway. You get my point
Just read your point Bosky.
Yes, that makes sense. So maybe what I'm saying is I'd hope things don't get stuck there.

MarchXX · 20/03/2023 17:52

Helleofabore · 20/03/2023 14:42

Just for those who have fallen for the 'she allowed 'mein kampf' to be quoted, this is the transcript from Lisa Morgan, a speaker at the Newcastle event actually said.

Let Women Speak - Newcastle - Part 2 time 8.59

https://www.youtube.com/live/vgxjSGeCE4Q

___

Now, I am going to talk to you about something I have not seen in the press. I am a hypnosis practitioner and have been doing hypnosis for 30 years and helping people to hypnotise others. And I know about language. I know that this is based on something we call the ‘big lie’.

Do you know the ‘big lie’?

The big lie was first described by Adolf Hitler in Mein Kampf. The big lie is such a big lie that ordinary people like us think, ‘Well, that can’t be a lie. Because I have never tell as big a lie as that.’ We only lie in small ways. The big lie… There is one big lie going on and it is being done by men, in the early part of the 20th century.

It began when they had an erotic fantasy. And they decided they were going to sell us the ‘big lie’. And what is the big lie? The big lie is that that ‘transwomen are women’.

But they are not, are they? They are men, and we know that.
So let me just spend a couple of minutes telling you a bit how this hypnosis works.

Repetition. Repetition is hypnotic. The more you repeat it, the more you believe it. The more you hear ‘transwomen are women’, the more a shadow of that big lie, lies in your head.

I am sure that I am not alone in that I am sat at home and thinking, maybe there is, you know, maybe they do have female thought patterns. No! The effing don’t! All the thought patterns I have, are my thought patterns and I have as much DNA that is female in my toenail that Izzard doesn’t have in any part of him.

So the thing is, you start to believe it. You start to believe it. And if you repeat an idea over and over again, and people start to believe it, and you want them to believe it, that is called affirmation. Affirmation is what hypnotists use to make you believe something. So, ‘be kind’ is an affirmation.

If you are sympathetic to this ideology, this ideology that I call the ‘trans phallus - ey’. If you are sympathetic, then you are affirming. Everytime you call a he who says he is a she, she, you are affirming.

Affirmation makes people believe things. If you repeat it and you repeat it. I hope that I am repeating this enough that you will be in no doubt, no doubt ever, that a man is a man and a woman is a woman.

So how to stop this, what is called ‘gaslighting’, what is called brain washing.
Manage your emotions. Don’t match them. Don’t get sympathetic. Don’t go ‘there there dear’.

Break the chant. Pour cold water over their lies. Do it realistically or do it with your words. Your honest words break people out of compliance. If you are honest, they cannot stay where they are, cos it is all about stake management. We have to manage our emotions.

Refuse to affirm.

And the best thing is laugh. I know that I am not laughing now, but I do laugh a lot.

And I want to just give you one last tip on hypnosis. Don’t ever say to someone, ‘transwomen are not women’. Because our unconscious mind does not think ‘not’. It only thinks it is transwomen, women, transwomen, women. Transwomen, well they are women, aren’t they? They are women! Emotions. Emotions are what caught them. They got caught, not by rational things, but they got caught by emotions. And how are we going to break this is by using emotions that shake them out. So, they can’t find that emotional sympathy ever again.

Thank you.

So, discussing a concept such as how a lie that is so inconceivable that normal people cannot believe it is a lie is what she did. And she did it to highlight how society has been influenced to repeat a mantra that males can ever be considered 'women'.

Should this propaganda tool never be discussed because to do so 'invokes' Hitler some how? Will people stop discussing Foucault then? What about mentioning anything that John Money did or said?

I am all for people critiquing what Lisa Morgan said, but let's get to the facts.

Was she 'quoting' or was she pointing out the propaganda tool that she believes has been used? Shall we stop discussing all aspects of communism then as well? Can't discuss the manifesto?

I think only lazy people will fall back on 'she was quoting' because someone else told them she was 'quoting'.

@Helleofabore! Thank you so much. I was going to locate this speech and transcribe it myself so I had something to post whenever someone mentioned it as her supporting h1tler or whatever. I will save it for when needed. I suggest everyone does the same and please post it whenever you see it mentioned negatively. The truth is important, the TRAs hate it with a passion.

Bosky · 20/03/2023 17:58

DameMaud · 20/03/2023 17:31

Yes. Sorry. My last response did that bloody annoying cutty off thing after long typing and I've lost the will now!

Basically, just saying, yes, I don't want to let the important stuff get lost. It feels a bit like being played!

Sometimes the best response is to get back quickly to the source- the speeches, the achievements of the event. They speak for themselves and show the ' bad association issues' for what they are.
The media is playing this game- they are not talking/showing the actual women speaking. So I just think it wou

Oh God! I've just looked at that thread. 🙄

Threads like that ("KJK is a bad woman and you are all fools!") are a permanent feature of Mumsnet and I would lose the will to live if I spent any time on them.

Good luck to those who have the patience and stamina to deal with them.

If the OPs and KJK detractors on those threads really are concerned with women's rights - what the flying feck are they doing wasting their time shit-posting on Mumsnet??

OneMorePlant · 20/03/2023 18:01

Helleofabore · 20/03/2023 12:49

Well, Julie Bindel has doubled down and I don't think anyone can say she is backhanding SFW in this thread. I think she is clear that SFW do things differently.

twitter.com/bindelj/status/1637769018491957249?s=20

10:52 AM · Mar 20, 2023

THREAD
For clarification:
1. No Nazi on the planet supports women's rights, or is sympathetic to feminism. They hate us.
2. If the women at the Standing for Women rally are responsible for the Nazis turning up, then Billy Bragg, Owen Jones, and all the other Corbyn supporters/

apologists are responsible for the Ku Klux Klan sending its support re the antisemitism under his leadership.

3. If the Nazis rocked up at one of my public demos I would roundly and publicly condemn them (but that's just me, I'm eccentric like that).

4. There is plenty of feminist critique of right-wing tactics when it comes to trans ideology, such as:

unherd.com/2020/10/feminisms-dangerous-new-allies/

5. Misogynistic men will blame women for anything and everything and they can take a running jump.

So, SFW takes an approach that she would not take, but she is pretty clear that these ridiculousness has gone too far in making such accusations that SFW in any alignment with Neo nazi men who turned up at a rally where women were speaking.

I mean she could not help herself on a ridiculous comment. She has no issues with throwing KJK under the bus. She only reacted to save her own skin.

Let Women SPeak - Australia & NZ tour
IwantToRetire · 20/03/2023 20:17

Trans laws critic given green light for rally

A Hobart rally led by British transgender rights critic Kellie-Jay Keen will go ahead, after state parliament rejected demands it ban the gathering in the wake of Melbourne’s neo-Nazi outburst.

(Cant see anymore of the article as it is behind paywall. But good to know that it wont be cancelled.)

www.theaustralian.com.au/business/legal-affairs/transgender-laws-critic-kelliejay-keen-cleared-to-speak-at-hobart-rally/news-story/c97029fcf61f9428a3367c21d8dbfe9e

As opposed to this article

Anger over ‘fake feminists’ allowed to rally in Hobart

A group that held a demonstration that attracted neo-Nazis in Melbourne has been given the go-ahead to continue with plans for an event on Parliament Lawns in Hobart.

www.themercury.com.au

SmashedTable · 20/03/2023 21:06

FOJN · 20/03/2023 09:10

Have you got anymore information about that? I know Chris Hipkins had made a few remarks but has it been confirmed or is it still being discussed?

It led last night's news and the overall message was that her visa would be revoked but no-one had had time to look into it, they (PM, mayors etc) were speaking on the basis that visas of hate-speech visitors were declined. Tbh the country is still v focused on the cyclone clean up so it was a bit of a fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants comment situation. Likely to be a more considered response today.

NotYourCisterinAus · 20/03/2023 21:43

I never thought I'd agree with Andrew Bolt, but it's 2023 and here I am.

GlorianaCervixia · 21/03/2023 00:13

NotYourCisterinAus · 20/03/2023 21:43

I never thought I'd agree with Andrew Bolt, but it's 2023 and here I am.

Yes, it’s quite something when Andrew Bolt is the only journalist to fact check the claims that KJK associates with white supremacists. It speaks to how lazy and ideologically driven the rest of the media has become.

The Victorian premier, Dan Andrews, came out and called the women who spoke hateful today. No doubting the contempt Victorian Labor has for women. I hope NSW won’t go the same way after the state election on Saturday.

Helleofabore · 21/03/2023 00:39

GlorianaCervixia · 21/03/2023 00:13

Yes, it’s quite something when Andrew Bolt is the only journalist to fact check the claims that KJK associates with white supremacists. It speaks to how lazy and ideologically driven the rest of the media has become.

The Victorian premier, Dan Andrews, came out and called the women who spoke hateful today. No doubting the contempt Victorian Labor has for women. I hope NSW won’t go the same way after the state election on Saturday.

Yes, Saturday is a bit of a worry…

Bosky · 21/03/2023 00:41

IwantToRetire · 20/03/2023 20:17

Trans laws critic given green light for rally

A Hobart rally led by British transgender rights critic Kellie-Jay Keen will go ahead, after state parliament rejected demands it ban the gathering in the wake of Melbourne’s neo-Nazi outburst.

(Cant see anymore of the article as it is behind paywall. But good to know that it wont be cancelled.)

www.theaustralian.com.au/business/legal-affairs/transgender-laws-critic-kelliejay-keen-cleared-to-speak-at-hobart-rally/news-story/c97029fcf61f9428a3367c21d8dbfe9e

As opposed to this article

Anger over ‘fake feminists’ allowed to rally in Hobart

A group that held a demonstration that attracted neo-Nazis in Melbourne has been given the go-ahead to continue with plans for an event on Parliament Lawns in Hobart.

www.themercury.com.au

Archived article in The Australian:

archive.is/www.theaustralian.com.au/business/legal-affairs/transgender-laws-critic-kelliejay-keen-cleared-to-speak-at-hobart-rally/news-story/c97029fcf61f9428a3367c21d8dbfe9e

Bosky · 21/03/2023 00:48

In case the link in my previous post to the archived article in The Australian does not get approved.

Let Women SPeak - Australia & NZ tour
Let Women SPeak - Australia & NZ tour
Let Women SPeak - Australia & NZ tour
BoreOfWhabylon · 21/03/2023 01:09

Hobart starting now
www.youtube.com/live/rt09IHWLi_E?feature=share

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