Keir Starmer confirms Labour will push ahead with self ID (7th Feb 2023)

[Thelnebriati]

Despite everything that has happened over the past few days;

Ben Bradshaw
''A warm welcome for @ Keir_Starmer as he recommits to reforming the UK’s out of date gender recognition process at tonight’s @ LGBTLabour @ LGBTHM
reception in Parliament''

twitter.com/BenPBradshaw/status/1623032232284721189

Here's hoping the MSM picks up on it and forces him to clarify what he means.

Given Sturgeon's current difficulties, I'm assuming he doesn't want to jump on her bandwagon.

They contact a pool of people, do demographic checks first to get the right balance in the pool, then survey on political questions.

Not to be confused with self-selecting issue surveys, usually online.

Proper opinion polling is pretty scientific. There are sometimes issues where weighting is wrong but if an opinion is widespread, it will show up in proper polling.

Ok, a sample from what? Where is the data being pulled from? Agreeing on issues online or somewhere else?

It was a YouGov poll. YouGov usually invites its members and then does screening questions about age, gender (yes, annoying), council area, and for these polls, how you voted in elections and the Scottish referendum before, so they get a representative sample of the population. dp usually gets yougov invitations but he didn't do this one, he says.

We can't know much Starmer's intentions as he is happy to backtrack on pledges and tell people want they want to hear. The only thing we can say for sure is firstly he has some natural scepticism about this stuff, because he was only one who refused to sign up to a trans rights charter when running for leadership in 2020 when he was promising everything else under the sun to everyone.

Secondly there are signs that if Starmer becomes convinced that gender stuff is truly electoral poison he will sideline it. Because that is what he has done with anything else which seems like it might lose votes. He is ruthless when he needs to be. I am not saying he is going to do this,just pointing out anyone who has underestimated Starmer's readiness to toss them overboard has found themselves in the water.

At the moment he playing off both sides which is why he is unpopular on Mumsnet and on Reddit. Why because his own shadow cabinet is divided over this.

So what happens in Scotland is vital. If Scottish women can derail the SNP and there are signs they can then there is a real chance Labour will backtrack, while pretending otherwise.

As for voting check the personal position of every candidate in every party in your constituency. No one party can be trusted.

I really can't come up with a better comment than this;

I'm still stunned to discover there truly are people openly in favour of women being compelled to validate a man with their body by undressing it in his presence, whether or not they consent or however distressing they may find it. And that those people will only graciously see a bit of an issue and grant those women a get out clause from this social duty after the man turns out to be a convicted sex offender.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4729470-beauty-students-asked-to-strip-in-front-of-trans-rapist-at-college-after-sex-attacks?page=38&reply=123739264

You seem to have misread my post - I was not talking about you.

I was talking about the voting in red wall seats.

I have no idea what class you are, I would/could not label class based on someone being 'articulate'. Do you hold the view that working class people are not articulate?!?

We are all middle class on here apparently. I was surprised to find that joining an online forum immediately elevated my social class. Who knew. shame my house didn't undergo the same uplift!

Im with @spottie and @MrsBennetsPoorNerves - I'm voting Labour because this government is unbearable. (There are a few things they've done that I quite like, usually fixing terrible previous actions of theirs, but they're few and far between). Even on this issue I would like to see less performative speeches making the atmosphere toxic like 'i know what a woman is' and much more action on child and adolescent mental health, services for autistic people, post lockdown care, and all the other psychosocial potholes that have let the great god Gender eat up our attention.

I genuinely trust Starmer and I accept as well that the aim is not to make everybody feel the same. I also accept that polling shows this is not a massive issue for many, but that among the next generation of voters say 15 to 30, it's a massive issue the other way. My job as a GC woman is to point out the problems and the issues with pretending sex is irrelevant in all sorts of areas. It's not to make everyone agree with me.

Kier doesn’t know what a woman is even though he’s married to one. It’ll be a no from me.

I'm blocked from emailing my Labour MP, so I might be a bit more salty about this than some.
I think people need to look at the situation for vulnerable women right now in places like California and Canada, and wonder how anyone can still believe self ID has no impact on poor women when they are handing contraceptives in women's prisons.

How will we know please when Labour have backtracked while pretending otherwise? I would hate to miss it.

in previous polling it’s been who are most opposed to self id.

Only when asked.

This is not an issue coming up spontaneously, from voters.

There is no policy proposal to introduce it, so why would it go up the agenda?

Do you think that male voters in red wall seats will vote against their economic interests?

I didn’t know that, thank you for explaining!

yougov.co.uk/topics/society/articles-reports/2022/07/20/where-does-british-public-stand-transgender-rights

Source for my comment:

They did last election!

Well, yes you are quite right there

They believed in Johnson and levelling up/Brexit and they HATED Corbyn.

I just feel this is not something most people will be thinking about when thinking 'what worries me'.

There's got to be a gender critical woman somewhere who has Keir's ear and can patiently walk him through the foothills and up to the peak. Or will it be some English sex offender, they seem to get people's attention.

Elections can be strange

A few examples of where I think the electorate wasn’t really thinking of something - until they were

Anti semitism in Labour Party - had a big impact

Miliband and a bacon sandwich

Penny M (leadership I know) and gender issues

For the Red Wall Starmer is a wally here too as he’s using Brexit line rather than tackle issues there

imo immigration is a factor for those seats and both parties know it

That’s is absolutely shocking @Thelnebriati - on what grounds were you blocked? isn’t that like being made stateless - no access or recourse to your democratic representative ?!

I know that sounds a bit dramatic but Jesus.

I think self-ID played a part in Jo Swinson losing her seat and to the Lib Dem poor performance in that election. She lost her seat to the SNP but her failure to be clear on ‘what is a woman’ was a major feature of the coverage of the LD campaign.

To a large extent the next election will not be determined by who votes Labour or Tory but by those who don’t vote.

Labour has always had a problem getting their voters out. Thing is, you may INTEND to vote Labour, but then on a cold wet day in January 2025 you think of Keir, and of his position on women, on the EU, or indeed just about anything, and you can’t find the motivation. Your Tory neighbour who might have the odd, interesting, dream about Dishi Rishi, wants to stop self ID, and does not trust that Keir can control his young activists, so puts on her wellies and heads out into the cold and wet.

Made me laugh for the writing 😬

Perhaps not the ins and outs of womens rights, but there is an overall dislike for ‘woke’ in general and Starmer hasn’t jettisoned it.

I’m further north than the red wall and up here people are thoroughly sick of generations of perpetual Labour Councils, the thought of a Labour government on top just isn’t that appealing, even when you hate the Tory shitshow.

Elections are deffo weird tho and I wouldn’t be surprised if we have a completely new set of party leaders before a GE… Nicola Sturgeon seems to be on a political ventilator, just waiting for the party to gather round the bedside and flick the leccy off.

I wasn't invited to participate in that one, either. I started doing You Gov polls three or maybe even four years ago after someone on here suggested it. I signed up because it seemsed to be the only way of registering an opinion with a Welsh government that absolutely refuses to listen to women.

I've only two or three times in at least two years been asked questions about voting in Wales and Welsh issues. I've never been offered any questions on anything to do with transgender. I've even considered reregistering and creating a different profile for myself in the hope of getting past the algorithm.