Keir Starmer confirms Labour will push ahead with self ID (7th Feb 2023)

[Thelnebriati]

Despite everything that has happened over the past few days;

Ben Bradshaw
''A warm welcome for @ Keir_Starmer as he recommits to reforming the UK’s out of date gender recognition process at tonight’s @ LGBTLabour @ LGBTHM
reception in Parliament''

twitter.com/BenPBradshaw/status/1623032232284721189

Sorry I can't speak for the other countries apart from Ireland. Women are being silenced there because of their gender reform act. The press are silenced. There are huge problems ahead that people are only just becoming aware of. It is not the rosy picture you imagine.

I don't necessarily think it's a rosy picture but I think in the list if issues that disproportionately negatively affect women, this isn't the biggest one. Voting Tory as a 'protest' against Labour has bigger consequences. At least vote Green or Lib dem or an independent.

Sure, you might not get self ID - fine. But what do you get if we have more Conservative rule? A complete and utter shit show across the board. Not sure if the knowledge self ID is not a thing will pay your new health insurance premiums.

The Argentina article linked upthread says "Officials say data shows no rise in violence against women" - but the recording of statistics is going to be distorted isn't it, if crimes by transwomen are recorded simply as crimes by women. It also mentions that 70% of trans people in Argentina are sex workers, which doesn't seem to me to be an accurate reflection of the trans experience in the UK. Not sure you can wave the Argentinian flag as an example of a resounding success.

Well, there would be still be an increase wouldnt there. It's the perpetrators sex that would be recorded differently but violence towards women would be increased and recorded.

Depends how you define success but everyone is worried about an increase in violence against women - and this hasn't happened.

It's one example. But no different to people sharing one example of a trans woman in prison abusing a woman to make a sweeping point.

Greens/Lib Dems no way on this earth would I vote for them.

It is the biggest issue. It fucks up everything it touches. And that's the point of self-ID - to ruin data and truth, and to silence dissent.

The choice at the next election is now between self ID vs more of the Tories vs spoil your ballot. I suspect whatever the outcome it will be used as a stick to beat women with.

If Labour want us to vote for them they have to have policies we can vote for with a clear conscience. Self ID is not something I can vote for. It has wider implications than any other proposed policy; even austerity, or the death penalty.

''At least vote Green or Lib dem'' Did you miss the Challenor scandal? The Greens practically had to be forced to deal with the issue. A major political party had no safeguarding policy in place. How could you trust them to run the country?

Would you still think data about sex for less than 1% of the population the most important issue of you had a serious emergency and couldn't get an ambulance because they're on strike because this government don't pay people properly?

Or if your neighbour was seriously assaulted by her male partner because there's no longer enough police to deal with domestic issues?

But none it matters as long as the sub-1% of people are under control!

It's not just 1% who are affected though is it? It's 51%. It affects all of us biological women if we are expected to allow male-bodied strangers into our intimate spaces if they say the magic words "I am a woman".

In* *abusive relationships they give you two bad choices and demand you pick one.
Then blame you for the outcome.

if your neighbour was seriously assaulted by her male partner

Seriously? In a debate about self-ID?!

Would you still think data about sex for less than 1% of the population the most important issue of you had a serious emergency and couldn't get an ambulance because they're on strike because this government don't pay people properly?

If self ID doesn’t matter and isn’t an important issue, why don’t TRAs agree it doesn’t matter, back the fuck off, and tell Starmer to walk back his wildly unpopular policy so he can maximise the Labour vote? Why can’t Labour be pragmatic on this issue since it’s so small and insignificant when you compare it to saving the Health Service?

You’ll regret this frivolous insistence on a vanity birth certificate when you’re selling your organs to a billionaire for food under the next Tory government, you mark my words.

Self- ID and this policy doesn't exist in a vacuum, and voting decisions based on self-ID have wider implications.

Self- ID and this policy doesn't exist in a vacuum

Careful, you almost sound like you’re getting it.

I thought that nothing could ever convince me to vote Conservative, but I was wrong.

What health insurance premiums? Like most people in the UK I rely on the NHS and I certainly want to be in a same sex ward with the option of same sex care if I end up in hospital. Are you in the UK but lucky enough to afford private healthcare insurance (although even then there are no guarantees)?

I don't necessarily think it's a rosy picture but I think in the list if issues that disproportionately negatively affect women, this isn't the biggest one.

You don't think that the erasure of sex categories, which have been understood and recognised and around which societies the world over have organised for thousands of years, is an important change? You don't think that striking out or making irrelevant all the rights that women fought so hard for is an astounding act of metaphorical violence against women? You don't see it as massively problematic that a policy that is based on a fundamental lie — that someone born male can become, in any sense, female — can be allowed to prevail? If we can't trust politicians to acknowledge the existence of two discrete, immutable sexes — something that people have understood for millennia — then what can we trust them with? If we step over this line we're I 1984 territory.

Oh, you're from outside the UK, telling us what's okay for us, are you? And are you male?

Beat me to it

I am in the UK and use the NHS, but the point I'm making is that the Conservative government are on the way to a privatised system. The whole thing is failing and without more money some kind of privatisation will be peddled as the only sensible option.

Cantthinkofabetternameforhere · Today 13:24

I don't necessarily think it's a rosy picture but I think in the list if issues that disproportionately negatively affect women, this isn't the biggest one. Voting Tory as a 'protest' against Labour has bigger consequences. At least vote Green or Lib dem...

If you don't feel that you could vote Labour, as a result of them promoting self ID, why on Earth would you vote Green, or Lib Dem, when they're far more aggressive in their stance on the matter?

Self-ID doesn't erase everything women have fought for over the centuries though. There isn't a special clause that says women no longer have any rights or don't exist. There's space for women to keep their rights and for trans people to be treated fairly.

Transgender people dont erase women. You don't suddenly cease to exist if you go to Ireland, pretty sure woman there still have rights.

I am in the UK! And I am not a man (or a trans man, or a trans woman for that matter!)

Transgender people dont erase women.

No, but giving the unfettered access to all areas makes life difficult and uncomfortable for an awful lot of women. There are loads and loads of reports of men in women's changing rooms in shops, playing with themselves, for example.

That's not to mention women being edged out of sports, or being locked up with violent and sexual offenders, who claim to be women, when they're men playing the system.

I don't think anyone who suggests voting Green or Lib Dem if you don't want to see self ID is worth taking seriously.

Precisely. The greens are front and centre of it all in Scotland.