Keir Starmer confirms Labour will push ahead with self ID (7th Feb 2023)

[Thelnebriati]

Despite everything that has happened over the past few days;

Ben Bradshaw
''A warm welcome for @ Keir_Starmer as he recommits to reforming the UK’s out of date gender recognition process at tonight’s @ LGBTLabour @ LGBTHM
reception in Parliament''

twitter.com/BenPBradshaw/status/1623032232284721189

‘But the threat to women isn’t trans people, the threat to women is what it has always been: the patriarchy. Women and trans people are allies in this; both are threatened by rigid gender roles which suppress their expression.’

Groan. Straight out of the Jeffrey Marsh playbook.

I do love the incorrect connection you have made between the NRA and the post. It's lovely.

Ah the Greens. Party of the Challenors.

GailBlancheViola · Today 18:41

I live in the vague hope that once, just once we'll get the answers to the questions, the evidence and the data @SinnerBoy it's not much to ask but it never happens.

As frequently as that, eh?

I read one of Helen Lewis’s newsletters from a couple of months ago recently. She talks about how Starmer supported Corbyn and then turned on him when he became leader and took a strong line on anti-semitism. She says it was ruthless and not what people tend to think of Starmer. She also mentions how he wouldn’t sign that trans pledge which the other leadership candidates did - so is there any chance he’ll continue on his current path to avoid the media storm then drop GRA reform if Labour win?

I don’t know, to me it feels like Starmer and Labour are too far gone on this, but is it possible? Even people like Jacqui Smith, who don’t even need to be re-elected still spout the same rubbish as Labour MPs.

At the risk of being shot down in flames, has KS ever said anything that has caused you to think "well, that is clear then"?

Kier Starmer signed the LGBT Labour trans pledge (a different one from everyone else), has refused to speak to women's groups despite saying he would, and has repeatedly stated he intends to bring in self ID.

''@ Keir_Starmer
These pledges and LGBTLabour have my full support. I stand in full solidarity with our LGBT+ members and the wider community, will defend LGBT+ rights and protections, and campaign with you for the changes rightly prioritised here. Look forward to the hustings!''
twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1227878854183792642

This is the pledge;
twitter.com/LGBTLabour/status/1227654076453859331

23 December 2022
''Sir Keir Starmer has pledged to change the law to allow trans people to self-declare their gender, The Telegraph can reveal.
The Labour leader has said he will “update” the Gender Recognition Act (GRA) if elected, despite warnings that doing so would impact women’s rights and could enable predatory men to access single-sex spaces.''

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/12/23/keir-starmer-pro-trans-laws-needed-across-uk/

The article can be read in Archive Is or 12 Foot Ladder

That’s fixed it for me, I’ll never vote for Labour again.

Well the chair of stonewall must think it's worth a punt that starmer will do as he's told!

I'm really looking forward to seeing KJK on the hustings, ( if live streamed, lol ) i somehow suspect that starmer will be a no show though.
Of course, any of us spotting him out in the wild must do our bit too, especially if there's a tv crew with, we need to demand an answer at every opportunity to questions such as...
a) What is a woman?
b) Do men have cervix'
c) Have you got a cervix starmer, if so where do you keep it? Is it a knitted cervix, or is it made from empty yogurt pots and sticky back plastic?
d) does your dad realise, that you're the biggest and most useless tool he ever made?!

I wonder if Starmer is continuing on the self-id route because a large contingent of LGBTQ+ are in the entertainments and media industries. They can be very influential. Numbers obviously aren't big enough to get KS into number 10 but I wonder if he thinks they solidify the under 25 vote. It's a thought

It is mystifying. Especially as if the numbers aren't large, then why do it?

Money?

Funding from either woke billionaires. There are plenty of philanthropic US families including the Gettys and the Pritzkers who are strongly supportive of the LGBTQ+++ agenda, as well as affluent gay businessmen such as Iain Anderson.

And given how many businesses have been busty rainbow washing, it is not too big a leap to sell Labour as the moral party, as opposed to those evil Tory bigots.

Thelnebriati · Yesterday 23:35

Kier Starmer signed the LGBT Labour trans pledge...

Bloody Hell, if that's current, it shows that he has the political nous of a wet ashtray. Surely he's seen the shitshow in Scotland?

The problem is that they've jumped into bed with a nest of scorpions and they can't see how to move, without being stung.

Needmoresleep different kind of influence and a lot of the big bucks companies are US. I'm not sure everything from the US has imported well and I think many (in the US) are very interested in what's happening here. It's a big tanker to move and it may take a few more years but I'm hearing an awful lot of grumbling

Lord Ashcroft has a long article in Con Home on his poll. At the end, are word clouds of political leaders, none of whom come off that well:

conservativehome.com/2023/02/14/lord-ashcroft-my-polling-finds-sturgeon-waging-a-losing-constitutional-battle-against-westminster-on-her-gender-reforms/

Interesting. Haven't read the full article but good to have something data-based. Took a quick look at the sound clouds. Starmer ought to be worried.

It occurs to me that one way of looking much stronger and more decisive would be to say that having considered the situation carefully and having listened to women's voices he has decided that Labour guarantees it will not introduce self-ID and will strengthen the EA2010. The rights of QT+ people not to be bullied and harassed will be strengthened but the desires of 0.2% of the population cannot override the right of privacy, dignity and safety of 51%.

That would be seen as a brave thing to do. A few very vocal TRAs and allies will go apeshit but it would mean that a larger group of people like me, lifelong Labour voters who are prepared to vote abstain or vote Conservative to send a message, can come back to the party.

There is no mystery about why Starmer is trying to play both sides about this. Remember a lot of elites especially academia, media and business back genderism. A huge section of Labour and part of the shadow cabinet are converts. There is a lot of pressure on him and money too.

Starmer is convinced he can keep TRAs and GCs in the party under control while he dashes for power. He doesn't think many people will change their votes over the existence of sex because inside Labour this battle has been simmering since 2016/7 so he thinks he can keep it sidelined. He doesn't want a civil war over gender.

What he doesn't recognise is that for many ordinary people the scandal began recently in Jan 2023. The SNP bill, the "trans double rapist, then they find out more on sports about the Tavistock and JKR. The more they learn the more they don't like it.

The fact is the 2024 election will definitely be about the existence of sex in a big way. Because Sunak doesn't have many other cards to play and the SNP will be still be in crisis over it.

Plus because trans criminals keep doing evil things and more medical scandal is coming out the drama will intensify. Plus always remember Labour has to retain the support of ethnic/religious minorities who do not believe in genderism at all for the most part.

Plus American politics will be even more focused on gender issues with their Nov 2024 election and we love to watch that stuff.

I don't doubt Starmer is ruthless enough to swap sides on gender look at Brexit etc. He won't do it till public pressure forces him to though.

That means pushing rebels in the party and people outside helping shift Labour's position. So rather than just saying Labour's wholly evil, there is no hope, we need to push its internal divisions. Keep celebrating Rosie, Tonia and the others. Our secret weapon is to be reasonable, but also be firm.

Keep emphasising how many GCs are in the party which will trigger TRAs to attack it. No better way to get Labour to change than that.

Remember most TRAs are going to be pro Green, Lib Dem in 2024 because Labour's position will be way too moderate. They will paint Labour's moderation as them being genocidal monsters as a result. We can use that to our advantage.

Remember back in 2017 the Tories were pro-Trans that changed. The same can happen in Labour gradually. Reality is a big weapon.

Not saying anyone should actually vote Labour - make your own decision. What I am saying is Labour's internal politics is crazy going from Blair/Brown to Miliband to Corbyn to Starmer. Stuff can change. Women and gay people can win victories.

But when we asked what three they thought Sturgeon and the SNP were currently treating as their main priorities, 65 per cent mentioned getting Scottish independence, followed by 46 per cent naming gender recognition and trans rights – with the NHS a distant third (22 per cent). Only three per cent of Scots said gender recognition was among the most important issues to them.

This was an interesting inversion of the often made allegation - of not caring about women and children in poverty, poor education etc but prioritising transgender issues - made against those of us who are so upset about the ideological tampering with women’s language, the endangering of children’s future mental and physical well being, the removal of women’s rights to same- sex care and spaces all actively politically favoured by the SNP, Greens, Labour, and Liberal Democrats, that we say we cannot vote for any of them.

Here is the evidence that the SNP,(+ Green/Labour), far from prioritising the issues of women and children in poverty, poor education etc, are themselves
(rightly) perceived as being the very ones prioritising transgender issues.

You can get the Lord Ashcroft data tables from here:

lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/02/nicola-sturgeon-and-political-gravity-my-latest-polling-from-scotland/#more-16919

Petition to update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic ‘sex ‘ is biological sex, not sex as modified by a Gender Tecognition Certificate.

To sign and share the petition
⬇️
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/623243

News that will surprise no one. Analysis of PAds (Labour's policy advisors) shows it's a boys' club by 2:1

order-order.com/2023/02/14/the-old-boys-club-of-labours-political-advisers/

"Despite his supportt_ for equal pay, David Lammy’s top team consists entirely of men. Whilst Lisa Nandy, Jonathan Reynolds, Nick Thomas-Symonds and Ed Miliband also don’t employ a single woman. Nandy won’t be concerned, she just needs her team to switch their self-identification… "

This is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Another Tory government will do more damage than Self ID. Cutting public services, running the NHS into the ground/privatising it will do more harm to women than a very very small subsection of trans-women - which as already pointed out, is already a tiny subsection of the population as it is. Introducing self-ID won't mean suddenly toilets and changing rooms have any more trans women in than before.

I've seen the individual examples already of where trans women have committed these sorts of crimes - these will continue regardless of self-ID and also, none of those people had a GRC anyway so the argument is moot. Their crime is a crime regardless of having a GRC.

Men and diminishing public services are the biggest threat to women, not trans women.

Why is this issue bigger than issues such as healthcare and domestic violence? These have a far bigger negative impact on women in real life day-to-day. I bet most of you have never met a trans person or talked to them, but I bet you all know someone who has been affected negatively in some way by a man (a man presenting as a man, not a trans woman)

I see it more as turkeys voting for Christmas when it comes to women voting for a party committed to self id. You say tiny numbers. With self id any male can pay a fiver, and after 3 months legally be female. We know the scale of male paedophilia, male sexual abuse. Don't you think those tiny numbers have potential to be a very large number very quickly.

In theory - but in reality... not likely. There are 13 other countries in the world that have self ID, if those small numbers became large numbers then I think everyone would know about it.

Argentina has had a decade+ of self-Id and what you're describing hasn't happened - www.openlynews.com/i/?id=21757767-4909-4844-922f-41903ff042f8

Plus, since you don't actually need a GRC to get into any single-sex spaces now - as has been established. A man could pose as a trans women now and do those things. He doesn't need to self ID to do that.

Also - it wouldn't just be a fiver and an online form. There would be other documents. At minimum a stat dec which requires a wet signature from a solicitor and a legal declaration made.