Gender Critical Disputes - Radical Notion special edition free to read online

[IwantToRetire]

Cant say I have heard of Radical Notion. They say:

THE RADICAL NOTION was founded in 2020 to create a space for the resurgent wave of feminist thinking and activism. This not-for-profit magazine is run by an all-women collective of radical and socialist feminists. We are committed to the materialist analysis of sex-based oppression, and to challenging the material and symbolic structures of male dominance. This moment is a historic opportunity to deepen and widen the analysis of all aspects of women’s political condition, and its foundational role in all systems of extraction and domination.

We welcome words and images from women of all nationalities, classes, ethnicities and backgrounds to illuminate the meaning of feminist politics in their lives, and to create a global picture of this political moment. Our current battle, and the social, political and environmental unravellings we see all around us are, at their root, crises of patriarchy. We want to seize this moment to speak that truth.

theradicalnotion.org/gender-critical-disputes/

It seems quite expensive to subscribe but they have made this issue free to read online. A lot of it seems to be the ongoing antagonism (meaning the issues are real but seem to be motivated as much by personal fallouts) between radical feminist and socialist feminist gender critical women.

Some may remember this thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4662757-womens-place-uk-filia-event-the-elephant-ignored-yet-again and the revelation that WPUK seems to now be linked to the group Actual Gender Critical Left, who endlessly snipe about Karin Dansky and KJK.

Anyhow posting in case anyone wants to have a read.

Still not sure why some women think in the day of virtual opportunites to talk directly to other women, they need to go down the routed of "publishing" as though their ideas are somehow special and shouldn't be submitted to the rough and tumble on online forums like this one!

Not right wing. I'm currently a paid up member of the Labour Party

Ah boiled, I wasn't talking about you. But how interesting - I resigned mine a couple of years ago with a long letter of outrage that had no response But how can you bear it?

Winter, my principles also still track left wing/libertarian. The fact that I think Labour has become a dishonest, demented, misogyny-fest SHITSHOW I utterly refuse to vote for is on them, not me becoming more right wing.

Like many, I haven't changed my principles; I've just stopped holding my nose and voting. Labour haven't yet clocked that they have to do something to actually APPEAL to women, rather than just expect their votes on a promise that they'll sort our stuff once the menz are all fine.

I keep it so i can harangue them on the phone! They are looking for local councillors at the moment I'm looking forward to the phone call!

Winter, my principles also still track left wing/libertarian. The fact that I think Labour has become a dishonest, demented, misogyny-fest SHITSHOW I utterly refuse to vote for is on them, not me becoming more right wing.

I absolutely acknowledge and understand that. This is on Labour, not us.

But that's not what I'm talking about - I'm definitely not bemoaning that there are fewer Labour voters on MN Feminism, I'm bemoaning the increasing dominance of a right (libertarian?) narrative.

After getting accused a few months ago of being right wing I did think shit! What if my political leanings have shifted? Which is why i did the test and was relieved to see the results above. But pissed that my party cannot represent my position at the moment, yet the conservatives can. It's just nuts!

I don't see how any of the dislike that has actually been expressed on here for this article is coming from a 'right wing' place. People have stated their objections on this thread and none of them are anything to do with political orientation.

I also don't see where "woke" has been used on this thread or any mention of Trump. You seem to be lumping everyone who disagrees with you into one undistinguished "right-wing" mass - ironically it's exactly what TRAs do, it's a big part of what people are complaining about when they do complain about "woke," and that kind of thinking drives many people away from the self-identified left.

It seems like the same tendency Monty Python made fun of in the left years before I was born- "splitters!" I don't know why it happens but I wish to fuck it would stop, because the Tories keep on winning elections.

Trump was mentioned upthread in relation to the 'casual monstering' of the poor lad. 'Woke' was a general comment - I've seen it all across MN Feminism over the last couple of months since I've been reading again.

Fair enough.

I think the right wing/libertarians are making capital of the left's refusal to listen, so I'm quite happy to blame Labour and the other lefty parties for that, too. They've kicked wide of an open goal.

And despite what that idiotic article said, RW women do have a place in the conversation and views to share, even if they're not mine.

Excellent. I was on socialising terms with my local female MP before all this and things have gone - well, let's just say they've gone to absolute and quite public shit.

I'm very left wing and also a radical feminist.

Still pissed off with the way left wing academic feminists treat KJK etc.

I would love to hear more about that 😁

I strongly object to the unquestioning belief that left wing = good, and the view I seem to detect that right people know they are evil but do it anyway. looks like prejudice to me

Also left wing. Are you sure you are not confusing accidental alignment with the Tories on this one issue as rightwing?

there's believing in left wing social policy, and there's identifying as left wing.

people in camp 2 tend to be self righteous dicks as often as not in my recent experience

Still left winged, I haven't changed .. I have become more of a free speech advocate though because of this debate. And I won't vote Labour until they listen to women. Why do you think we're all right winged? It pisses me off that the left have made me agree with Trump on one issue. That's not my fault it's the fault of the left.

Trump was mentioned upthread in relation to the 'casual monstering' of the poor lad.

I haven't read that article being referenced but I think there's something to that comment.

I have no doubt in my mind that Trump is an absolutely vile human being, he disgusts me on every conceivable level, but if Hillary hadn't referred to (some of) his supporters as "deplorables" he might have faded back into obscurity in 2016. I don't think that many people in this country care about Trump being "monstered," and I'm thankful I don't have to try and empathise with whatever the fuck his appeal is to some Americans, but I don't think the failure to do so has helped the American left.

And the left (and especially the "woke") in this country have a similar vindictiveness in how they talk about their opponents/enemies - I wonder if history would have been different without Gordon Brown's "bigot" comment. Maybe casual monstering of political opponents, even Trump, isn't the best idea?

No, I'm talking about a creeping narrative here on MN that any kind of feminism that doesn't agree that feminism is 'equal opportunities for women to achieve - an equal opportunity marketplace' can be dismissed as elitist, head-girl feminism.

It's nuts actually, the idea that any insistence that all women, even non-high-achievers, be included in feminism is somehow elitist. That's what I mean about Farage feminism.

And the left (and especially the "woke") in this country have a similar vindictiveness in how they talk about their opponents/enemies

Well you know what they say about two wrongs.

No, you came on here saying we're all right wing and we sound like bigots. Why aren't we allowed to mention Trump unless in your approved terms? You sound like an ideologue.

KJK isn't right wing and neither is FWR. But even if she was/we were, why does it matter? Why do you think right wing is synonymous with bigot? Why are you writing long essays about how shit we all are? It's tiresome.

And the idea that Trump is where he is because of Hillary's deplorables comment is also <gnnnnn> somewhat lacking nuance.

No, I'm talking about a creeping narrative here on MN...That's what I mean about Farage feminism.

Apart from the single post mentioning Trump, what was it about this thread in particular that made you choose it on which to post about the creeping Farage feminism you're seeing on MN?

I use the term woke — It is useful to distinguish between the Green/SNP/Democrats’ authoritarian, bullying, middle-class politics, and the genuine left.

No one should feel the need to demonstrate their left wing credentials to someone plopping accusations of bigotry on here.

If winter is incapable of dealing with the diverse opinions on MN or the robust discussions that's not our problem. Most other people seem to manage.

Broadly how I use it, too. Although if you're not au fait with this debate I can appreciate it might look a certain way. Maybe I need a new descriptor.