Sunak: "I know what a woman is – an adult human female"

[escapingthecity]

I know it's a Mail link but I've not seen it up anywhere else yet:

Rishi Sunak wades into trans debate saying 'biological sex matters'
mol.im/a/11707375

Glad to see him taking a clear position.

Just asking you to think about how you would feel and am interested in your thoughts about it.

This.

Well done Rishi. I don’t care why he said it, but it is important that he did unequivocally.

How would this issue be linked to high costs of childcare and the gender pay gap to take two examples?

@LemonBounce

How can you report accurately on a pay gap if anyone can identify as female?

Statistics become meaningless.

Just asking you to think about how you would feel and am interested in your thoughts about it.

If I were a trans-identified male, I'd lobby for third spaces and/or for men to be kind to me when I'm using the spaces that align with my biological sex.

I would not expect women to accommodate me. I would recognise it's not the job of women to be support human to me

I hope that is clear @LemonBounce

One thing that rubs me the wrong way about TRA activity is that SOME ( not all ) trans women seem to behave in such typically male ways. Surely if womanhood is a woman soul essence then every trans women would behave with the same civility and empathic understanding that women exhibit.
In short if they feel like a woman, why do they act in such an agressve male way?
Tell me that this is typical woman behaviour?

I and others have answered about the gender pay gap and domestic violence and toilets.

Why are you attempting to leverage cost of childcare into the discussion?

As other's have said, your approach has continued to be that women cannot campaign across multiple issues at one time.

Why have you reduced women's abilities to only being capable of having one focus?

Because that really does sound like misogyny if that is what you are really trying to say.

Any acknowledgement that woman can work across multiple issues at once?

And any acknowledgment that you have posted this on a board that was separated from the other board to focus only on issues relating to strengthening the rights and protections of women and children where there are conflicts with those of males in another group?

I’m a single issue voter because women’s rights, once lost, are lost forever. A great NHS is no good to me if I or my mother have to be in mixed sex wards. Great schools are no good to me if my daughter can’t attend because there are only mixed sex toilets.

I will vote for whatever party will protect women and girls best

Sunak has simply recognised what many voters want to hear. I'm tried of people trying to tell me I must vote for a misogynist party and a leader with no backbone because the alternative is worse. All current political parties are a disgrace and I dont have to vote for any of them.

Sunak would need to convince me he really will tackle corruption and greed while Starmer, or any other party leader, would have to unequivocally stand up for women's rights. I cant see either happening so it may be another spoilt ballot paper..

Why aren't people more angry about other things like the gender pay gap and domestic violence?

How do we gather accurate data on and formulate policy around these issues, if people are allowed to lie about something as basic as their sex?

Canny companies can "solve" the pay issue by getting half their male board to change pronouns to she/her.

Because closing the sex pay gap relies on knowing which sex is being discriminated against and the societal reasons why that sex is being discriminated against. Doing things your way, as pps have noted, we could close the "gender" pay gap by having more men claim to be women. Would that help women? Obviously not. Improving the lot of and raising the status of women is predicated on knowing which class of humans they are - which of the two body types is unfairly discriminated against on the basis of their body type. Gender identity tells us nothing of any value about sex discrimination.

I see other posters got there before me!

Thank you @lechiffre55

SNP use relative privation against any criticism of their policies or actions.

There seems to be a disconnect with this poster repeating questions that now have quite a few answering posts..... a rather strange disconnect.

Haven't we had the 'how would you feel if you were trans and read this ... " question from an MRA already this week?

I think it should be made law that trans people inform future partners of their birth sex . Imagine a man meets a woman who is trans and she doesn't tell him . What if this man is hoping to start a family at some point . You cannot change your biological sex - there - I've said it !

Several.

And remember the flounce from not long ago...

It is honestly like some people think they have found a new angle. However, it is always interesting because the more posters write their answers, the more readers start to see the complexities and the conflicts and start to solidify their own opinions. Whatever those opinions are.

It might well be that a poster comes onto a thread who has only a superficial knowledge of the issues and leaves with much more to think about.

Always worth answering the questions and seeing what someone else thinks. And what others take away in the end depends on whether a poster has absolutely fuck all but shame and emotional manipulation or has something that is evidenced and reasoned to contribute.

Not as often as we like though (me getting around talk guidelines), posters have something evidenced and reasoned to contribute.

Sign this petition to update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic ‘sex ‘ is biological.

We need 100,000 signatures to show Rishi so he’ll be prompted to back his views up.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/623243

When trans women are 0.1% the population it's really going to have minimal impact on the stats. Even if they are all very successful...
Reporting has been ineffective anyway the gap has widened since reporting was brought in.
My question was about the pay gap itself. How is this fundamental for reducing that?

sparple

How is this fundamental for reducing that?

How would a nation or organisation develop policies to reduce the pay gap if it can’t be measured? Do you know anything about… well, anything? Policy goals have to be measurable.

Reporting has been ineffective anyway the gap has widened since reporting was brought in.

How do you know that reporting "has been ineffective" if you're able to tell us that the thing being reported, has changed? In this case, widened?

My question was about the pay gap itself. How is this fundamental for reducing that?

The importance of accurate data on sex and measurements on policy interventions has been covered upthread.

I think your question has been answered fully by other posters @LemonBounce

Can’t protect women’s rights if you can’t objectively define women. There is no issue that has a greater impact for women than being denied the ability to name and describe our class.

If you believed that trans people need rights, and not just affirmation, you would acknowledge that this is true for them too. It’s true for any group that needs specific rights.

Isla Bryson is representative of the comparatively large proportion of trans prisoners who are sex offenders because it is Scottish prison policy, SNP policy, Stonewall policy to describe him as such.

But why would you want higher conviction rates for rapists if they csn then just self-id into the women’s prison?
if, when they Get out of prison, they can just waltz into any women’s space with no repercussions?

what would you do with affordable childcare if the DBS on the employees wasn’t even worth the paper it was written on, due to self-id?