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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sunak: "I know what a woman is – an adult human female"

352 replies

escapingthecity · 02/02/2023 21:48

I know it's a Mail link but I've not seen it up anywhere else yet:

Rishi Sunak wades into trans debate saying 'biological sex matters'
mol.im/a/11707375

Glad to see him taking a clear position.

OP posts:
eurochick · 03/02/2023 09:55

Do I think Rishi said this "for votes"? Yes of course. It's an easy win.

Do I think he genuinely believes it? Yep. Most people do.

When Starmer said that it was wrong to say only women have cervices was he saying it "for votes"? Also yes. He was playing to the woke bro crowd and misjudged popular feeling.

Do I think he genuinely believed it? Absolutely not.

At least one of them was being genuinely while also playing "for votes".

onedayiwillmissthis · 03/02/2023 09:59

Lechiffre55 thank you for your post. I too am older and have voted for a variety of parties over the years. Whenever I moved to a different constituency I would look at what the candidates/parties standing were saying and decide then.

Last GE, living now in a Tory safe seat, only a Tory came canvassing, I asked his views on Gender identity & protecting women's rights...the old chap was totally flummoxed...didn't have a clue what I was on about! So I though...sod it and defaced my ballot paper with GC comments (Other candidates/parties were already on record with their TWAW bollocks).

I am a woman. An adult human female. I will NOT EVER vote for any political party that does not recognise and respect that.

Of course, Rishi is speaking with an eye on votes. Just as ALL those other politicians who are so afraid to speak the truth (let's be honest, they ALL know what a woman is) are saying what they think will help them hold power. But, hopefully Rishi's acknowledgment of biological reality will encourage other's in all parties to fess up and stop being so bloody weak and pathetic. They need to stop this dangerous pandering to fantasy and kink.

DOBARDAN · 03/02/2023 10:08

I too will never vote for any political party that does not recognise and respect that I am a woman - an adult human female, with a right to have dignity, privacy and protection in designated single sex spaces.

IceyDicey · 03/02/2023 10:09

A lot on here keep blaming the Tories for Brexit, if you remember Corbyn who was labour leader at the time ,refused to support remain, in fact as a Marxist he was ideologically suppoive of Brexit and and had to be sat on to stop him coming out as a Brexiter.

During the remain/Brexit debates Labour leadership were on the fence and did not have a party line.
So actually blaming the Tories for Brexit is a flawed argument. They held the referendum and and have had to deal with the fallout, but the. Corbyn labour leadership did nothing to advocate for remaining.
Its happening again with self ID, TWAW and the militant in labour are setting the agenda, Labour are not listening or reacting to the voters.
the best Sunaks critics can do on here is say that Rishi is only GC because he wants womens and the popular vote. that’s not a bug it’s a feature.

LemonBounce · 03/02/2023 10:14

Helleofabore · 03/02/2023 09:28

Oh. So the substance of your post wasn’t about trying to shame others with your usage of terminology?

Or to position women who are commenting with support that a PM who has made it clear that he understands that women need a clear definition, as not being engaged with other aspects of feminism.

Because ‘the substance’ of your post may be clear in your mind, but it really is debatable. There is one clear sentence in two paragraphs that seem to indicate a wish to focus on feminist issues.

The bulk of your post focuses on attempting to shame posters who disagree with you. Not one thing in your post indicates an intention to engage even neutrally with any discussion here.

Let me make it clearer.

Conservatives have a horrific record on women.
And the economy, NHS, social care etc
Truly is a party in their dying throes.

Taking some classic desparation steps - trying to channel the focus onto stigmatising minorities. Classic move.

Just surprised to find posters championing this am confused why this is considered the biggest issue for women right now with so much to choose from. How?

Why aren't people more angry about other things like the gender pay gap and domestic violence?

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 03/02/2023 10:17

That’s why Conservatives keep getting voted in, they listen, bend and change with public opinion. Unlike Labour who just patronise the public and tell us we need to think like they tell us to.

Yep. As PP’s have said, Sunak saying this to win votes is him doing his fucking job. Listening to public opinion and being broadly in line with it. Turns out public opinion is GC.

in my lifetime the Tories have won 8 general elections and Labour have won 3. A little introspection about why that is would be very good for Labour

ScrollingLeaves · 03/02/2023 10:17

Just feels a shame all this energy going into an area actively trying to reduce the rights of a minority group.

It is the other way round. A huge amount of energy has gone into reducing the rights of 50% of the population.

A minority group, while remaining entirely protected by the law, is unnecessarily massively reducing the rights of a majority group.

Say your daughter, one of a group representing 50% of a school, can no longer have a private girls’ lavatories to use but has to wait to go home rather than use them….all because there might be one or two gender questioning pupils who could have been offered a third alternative?

What if you had been raped ( something that happens to no small number of the 50% majority group called women) and wanted to attend a counselling session without a male present due to the threat they pose. But you are told a male who believes (or says) he is a woman, having turned down other counselling provisions offered, says they/he must attend the women’s session? Or the whole rape centre is run by a man who says they are a woman, and tells the women they must reframe their trauma around the presence of male people?

The list goes on.

Furthermore, the minority you speak of will grow due to gender identity ideology indoctrinating many many vulnerable children.

The irony of the left wing validating gender identity ideology is that a lot of it stems from a capitalist, multi million dollar pharmaceutical and medical industry in the USA.

Ohifyouinsist · 03/02/2023 10:19

Taking some classic desparation steps - trying to channel the focus onto stigmatising minorities. Classic move.

You're doing it again. We're talking about protecting the rights of women and girls, not 'stigmatising minorities'

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 03/02/2023 10:19

Why aren't people more angry about other things like the gender pay gap and domestic violence?

how do you know they’re not? What a strange thing to say. When people are talking about brexit (say), do you assume they don’t care about FGM?

Boiledbeetle · 03/02/2023 10:22

LemonBounce · 03/02/2023 09:38

Just feels a shame all this energy going into an area actively trying to reduce the rights of a minority group.
There are so many issues around women's rights that would have a greater impact for women.

What rights exactly are being reduced from which group?

Boiledbeetle · 03/02/2023 10:24

LemonBounce · 03/02/2023 09:34

That's easy. General policy shouldn't be designed based on a couple of weird cases. They aren't representative of a whole group of people and that group shouldn't be demonised because of the actions of a few.

Yes there should be more investment in prisons and the justice system to prevent crime.

I just can't help but hear that Trump speech about when Mexico sends immigrants they're 'not sending their best' do you know the one I mean?

That's easy. General policy shouldn't be designed based on a couple of weird cases. They aren't representative of a whole group of people and that group shouldn't be demonised because of the actions of a few.

could you tell me how I'm to spot the weird cases prior to them doing the weird thing that gets them arrested and sent to prison?

Helleofabore · 03/02/2023 10:30

LemonBounce · 03/02/2023 10:14

Let me make it clearer.

Conservatives have a horrific record on women.
And the economy, NHS, social care etc
Truly is a party in their dying throes.

Taking some classic desparation steps - trying to channel the focus onto stigmatising minorities. Classic move.

Just surprised to find posters championing this am confused why this is considered the biggest issue for women right now with so much to choose from. How?

Why aren't people more angry about other things like the gender pay gap and domestic violence?

Sure.... but that was NOT what the substance of your post was.

You came onto the thread with all the crap about dogwhistles and anti-trans and all the trope and then tried to pass it off as something it was not.

"Just surprised to find posters championing this am confused why this is considered the biggest issue for women right now with so much to choose from. How?"

"Why aren't people more angry about other things like the gender pay gap and domestic violence"

And you are still posting trope that is coming from your own blatant prejudices.

We ARE still discussing these issues that you seem very determined to lie that we don't care about.

Have you even bothered to not come into a thread and ask before you simply decided that you were some kind of morally superior feminist?

Your posts are classic whataboutery and full of your own prejudicial point of view about other posters on this thread.

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 03/02/2023 10:31

LemonBounce · 03/02/2023 07:34

I find it bizarre how people think this shows he cares about women's rights?
All it shows is he's happy to dog whistle the anti trans community. Just like they're happy to dog whistle the racist community with the Rwanda plan. well that one is more of a fog horn!

If he cared about women's rights I would be looking at a plan for the all time low rape conviction rate, police reform and childcare that's actually affordable. Wish some of the keyboard warriors on here would spend more time on some of the major women's rights failings!

Well said, my point exactly! Like I said upthread, if it's not trans issues, it's immigrants needing sending to Rwanda etc ...
Would love affordable childcare, I'd have been able to go back to work years ago instead of having to wait until now when the kids are teenagers,would have saved years of struggling financially and just scraping by.
That'd be a vote winner for me, as well as you say better conviction rates for rapists.

Boiledbeetle · 03/02/2023 10:31

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 03/02/2023 10:19

Why aren't people more angry about other things like the gender pay gap and domestic violence?

how do you know they’re not? What a strange thing to say. When people are talking about brexit (say), do you assume they don’t care about FGM?

Both of those issues very much sex based. And if some people got their way with self ID the statistics for both of these would become unusable in any way to be able to ensure steps were taken to solve the problems.

Which is why i can't understand people using things like these as something we should be concentrating on whilst ignoring the gender ideology shit show currently happening.

It seems like very disordered thinking.

MarshaBradyo · 03/02/2023 10:33

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 03/02/2023 10:31

Well said, my point exactly! Like I said upthread, if it's not trans issues, it's immigrants needing sending to Rwanda etc ...
Would love affordable childcare, I'd have been able to go back to work years ago instead of having to wait until now when the kids are teenagers,would have saved years of struggling financially and just scraping by.
That'd be a vote winner for me, as well as you say better conviction rates for rapists.

if it's not trans issues

It’s women’s rights we’re defending. At least acknowledge what you’re dismissing

LemonBounce · 03/02/2023 10:33

ScrollingLeaves · 03/02/2023 10:17

Just feels a shame all this energy going into an area actively trying to reduce the rights of a minority group.

It is the other way round. A huge amount of energy has gone into reducing the rights of 50% of the population.

A minority group, while remaining entirely protected by the law, is unnecessarily massively reducing the rights of a majority group.

Say your daughter, one of a group representing 50% of a school, can no longer have a private girls’ lavatories to use but has to wait to go home rather than use them….all because there might be one or two gender questioning pupils who could have been offered a third alternative?

What if you had been raped ( something that happens to no small number of the 50% majority group called women) and wanted to attend a counselling session without a male present due to the threat they pose. But you are told a male who believes (or says) he is a woman, having turned down other counselling provisions offered, says they/he must attend the women’s session? Or the whole rape centre is run by a man who says they are a woman, and tells the women they must reframe their trauma around the presence of male people?

The list goes on.

Furthermore, the minority you speak of will grow due to gender identity ideology indoctrinating many many vulnerable children.

The irony of the left wing validating gender identity ideology is that a lot of it stems from a capitalist, multi million dollar pharmaceutical and medical industry in the USA.

a male who believes (or says) he is a woman, having turned down other counselling provisions offered

stems from a capitalist, multi million dollar pharmaceutical and medical industry in the USA.

I'm interested in what you've said here.
Could you clarify do you think that trans people don't really exist?

Imagine if you were trans yourself - how would you feel about having to use the toilets of the other gender, how would you feel reading this thread?

Helleofabore · 03/02/2023 10:33

I ask you again LemonBounce

What did you expect the reaction to be from your post?

And your subsequent posts all seem to be focused on continuing to use emotional manipulation. "demonise", "actively trying to reduce the rights of a minority group." Try writing a post that cuts the crap and make an argument that doesn't position the posters in this thread in a negative light.

4thonthe4th · 03/02/2023 10:34

PennyToffee · 02/02/2023 22:02

What fools you are. You honestly think Rishi gives a shit about this?

They have spin doctors for this very reason.

More of a shit than Starmer? Sure.

CoffeeRightNow · 03/02/2023 10:35

I’ll tell you what I think @LemonBounce

I think the feelings of a trans woman don’t trump the safety of women and children, and the feelings of a gender dysphoric child don’t trump the privacy, dignity and safety of every girl in a school.

That’s what I think.

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 03/02/2023 10:37

It’s women’s rights we’re defending
Ok, if you're going to nitpick wording, women's rights.
Some of us don't see trans issues part of women's rights as the only women's rights worth fighting for
In other words some would vote in people who would give away the right to an abortion for example because "at least they know what a woman is!" 🙄
No chance.

Tanith · 03/02/2023 10:38

The only thing Rishi Sunak has demonstrated is that it's OK to change your mind.

Several months ago, Rishi Sunak was unable to say what a woman was. When she was PM, Theresa May was TWAW. There are two TWAW Conservatives in the Cabinet: Gillian Keegan and Penny Mordaunt. No-one seems to be demanding their opinion on the Scotland rapist debacle, yet they're actually in Government.

In fact, it wasn't until Liz Truss became Women and Equalities minister that any of the Government firmly stated the GC position.

ResisterRex · 03/02/2023 10:41

*a male who believes (or says) he is a woman, having turned down other counselling provisions offered

stems from a capitalist, multi million dollar pharmaceutical and medical industry in the USA.*

FWR has been miles ahead of you on this one. For years.

I'm interested in what you've said here.
Could you clarify do you think that trans people don't really exist?

No one has said that. Though it gets trotted out when there's no substance to the point being made, or when it's clear the poster has run out of road.

Imagine if you were trans yourself - how would you feel about having to use the toilets of the other gender, how would you feel reading this thread?

Ah, the old: "be kind" admonishment of women. That's when we know posters have run out of road. Toilet provision is sex based.

Imagine if you were a tran-identified male, wouldn't it be kind to lobby for a either a third space that accommodates you and doesn't intrude on women, or seek to change the attitudes of men such that they are kind and don't mind an MtF in their spaces? Given that men and MtF share the same thing in common - biology. And that's what these spaces are based on.

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 03/02/2023 10:42

Big pharma is behind being trans?! Ok, we've officially entered conspiracy theory down the Qanon type rabbit hole now if that's what you're saying?!
Unless you mean something else?

Boiledbeetle · 03/02/2023 10:42

Imagine if you were trans yourself - how would you feel about having to use the toilets of the other gender, how would you feel reading this thread?

if you mean if a transwoman was reading this what would that transwoman feel about using the female toilets after reading this is? They shoul think. t

"Shit I've been putting my selfish needs and want to be validated before the women I'm claiming to be one of, who are in the main telling me it's not acceptable because of many reasons. Maybe I should just use the gents that I'm perfectly entitled to actually use. And if i have problems with the Men in the men's then I'll campaign to raise awareness to the fact that men can present however they like these days but we are still men"

MarshaBradyo · 03/02/2023 10:43

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 03/02/2023 10:37

It’s women’s rights we’re defending
Ok, if you're going to nitpick wording, women's rights.
Some of us don't see trans issues part of women's rights as the only women's rights worth fighting for
In other words some would vote in people who would give away the right to an abortion for example because "at least they know what a woman is!" 🙄
No chance.

Words are important as nearly everyone has found it. Woman is adult human female not male

Who here has said they would give away right to abortion?

You seem to be arguing with issues that are not being presented.