"That poor transwoman..."

[IstayedForTheFeminism]

"That raped a woman and now isn't allowed in a women's prison so has no where to go"

What the actual fuck. This was a sentence said to me today at a discussion group I go to. No worry for the poor woman (women?) That was/ were raped. No. Just the rapist who raped.

I pointed out that said transwoman is a man and should therefore be in a men's prison, and was told "no she's not, she's a woman now" at which point I decided to change the topic for this week because it's not the sort of group where we want to have heated discussions.

I'm just shocked and saddened that a woman I like and admire is so happy to throw other women under the bus

I feel your pain, I worked with a woman who I admired in other ways but she has drunk the kool-aid.

Possibly, but she's 'older' and not in the best of health so I'm not sure that I'd feel comfortable doing so. I worry that she'd feel railroaded. Maybe if we get the chance for a 1:1 conversation

She's the sort of person who will have read in the media that TW are the most marginalised people every and just believed it. Because the media don't lie do they. :( (I know they do, but can imagine she'll believe what she reads)

it’s experience, how you go through the world and see things
I don't see things as pink and fluffy, I don't see prancing unicorns wherever I look, I don't see kittens farting rainbows every morning, I don't see men as women does this mean I'm not a woman?

Most of the problem here is that for some reason, you think that pretending that a rapist can be "she" or pandering to the delusions of a rapist is a good idea. Why?

But she's happy to put her opinion out there, so should accept others can share theirs too?

Just show her a picture of the fragrent Isla without a wig.

True. But in this particular setting, today, with the people who were there, I didn't feel it was the appropriate topic. (They are randomly generated so no one 'picked' it, plus is in our group rules that we can veto some things)
As soon as she said it i felt the tension in the room rise so replied (at the same time as someone else who said the same as me) and then decided to change the topic.

If @FellOnMyArseToDay used inappropriate pronouns for fear of a 'misgendering' deletion, I'd be pretty sure that the 'Karen White context' applies to Bryson, who is only known for his crimes against women before he (supposedly) transitioned.

https://www.mumsnet.com/i/trans-rights-moderation-policy

What about, for example, Karen White – is it ok to say he is a man and call him 'he'?
We think we've allowed for flexibility and context here; we’re unlikely to delete where an individual is primarily known for extreme or criminal actions undertaken before they transitioned.

I truly think this is a small minority view. I haven’t come across anyone who feels remotely sorry for him. Is she very young?

@FellOnMyArseToDay Are you sure? I think it may have been your head?

Are you 100% sure this woman wasn't being sarcastic ?

Nowhere to go? He can live with her instead of going to a prison then (albeit not allowed out of course) easy peasy

@Teateaandmoretea closer to 80 than 18

@Wonnle unless she has serious poker face she completely believed what she said and looked surprised that others didn't.

I think if you had said "you feel sorry for a RAPIST...what ?...why?" (then it takes gender out of it)

Followed by "But a RAPIST, seriously????" What about the poor women who was raped?"

But it's easy to be wise after the event!

There are still many women (and probably men, too) who have a preconception about a trans woman as someone who transitioned from being an effeminate gay man facing a lot of violence and harassment, and who has had genital reassignment surgery.

A few days ago I came across a young woman on Twitter who was seriously arguing that trans women are not a sexual threat to women in prisons as they were all gay men before transitioning, so there are younger people, too, who have little idea of what the statistical evidence actually demonstrates.

The person saying these things may not have been aware of how recent and possibly manipulative Bryson's transition is, and almost certainly is unaware that the vast, vast majority of trans women retain their original genitalia.

But she might also be the kind of woman who has always inadvertently sided with patriarchal norms by willingly handing over rights to groups which the society deems more deserving of them. I think some of this was always behind the success of the subjugation of the female sex, though it wasn't the main driver.

No he is a rapist and I am a woman

Feels like I need a easy to read Topsy and Tim type book to explain

@FellOnMyArseToDay so how many transwomen did this violent male rapist that you want to be put in prison with vulnerable women rape?

it’s experience, how you go through the world and see things

Right and this person’s experience up until being charged with rape was of being a man and a male rapist, something no woman has ever known. How could anything he has experienced give him the experience of being a woman? On the contrary, to be a trans woman (or a trans man) is to arrogantly appropriate someone else’s lived, real, bodily experience that you can never understand.

How the fuck can you know that how you see things is how the other sex sees things, when you’re not that sex? You can’t. It’s just a (usually) shallow, sexist, stereotyped idea of what you think it’s like to be that sex.

i don’t share a sex with this person and sure as hell don’t share their apparent idea of what being a woman means, so how are we both women? We’re not. I am.

I simply couldn’t stay in that group I don’t think.

After posting that I urealised that was a too hasty and rather stupid thing of me to say. My apologies OP.

Have people here seem this Parliamentary petition to update the Equality Act to make clear that sex is biological sex?

If you would like to sign,
⬇️
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/623243

Genuinely can't tell if you're joking but taking it at face value - specifically which ways of seeing things makes someone a woman? Can you give one example?

(If you can't answer, then think about why not. It's probably because you're being sexist, or don't understand the words you are using.)

Same here. I don't think I could speak to such a fuckwit. Except very briefly, about what she and other rape-supporters could do with themselves.

Most of the problem here is that for some reason, you think that pretending that a rapist can be "she" or pandering to the delusions of a rapist is a good idea. Why?

I think because it exposes the lie of the whole thing. If other males can decide their gender identity is "woman", why can't this one?

you know that’s not true. I never said that and you’re writing that down to make me look stupid. I don’t think having a vulva makes you a woman It’s a combination of a lot of things. Having a child doesn’t make you a mother not having a penis makes you a man. You know being a woman is more complicated than biology. But however I put it you won’t try I pity your children

Trans women have been in prisons for years even before all this blew up . So how were they managed in the system years ago ?