Andrew Burns AKA Tiffany Scott

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Wtf is going on? Another violent man being moved to a women's prison in Scotland. A man so violent they can't even take him to court and NHS staff refuse to treat him.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/new-trans-prisoner-storm-looms-29069314

Here’s a picture of Buck with two transwomen and another transman.

I would be far more comfortable sharing a cell with Buck, who is a biological female (and happy to discuss that openly) than I would be sharing a cell with a biological male.

I am about 2 inches shorter than Buck and we are both taller than average adult human females in both the UK and the USA.

I really cannot fathom why Buck is always brought up as some sort of scary gotcha.

Testosterone is powerful but it isn’t magical.

Would you expect women in prison to feel comfortable around a trans man that looks like Buck Angel?

Perhaps not. But Buck IS female. So, if there are only male and female places available it is on the women's prison to look for ways to manage that. And I think many women would, in fact, be ok once they knew Buck's status - I know I would. Not all, and that would need to be managed both for the distress to those women and the risk to Buck. But I certainly don't think a male prison would be the right place if nothing else because however much risk you think a trans women is at in a male prison, the risk to a trans man, even a fully transitioned one (which as far as I know Buck is not), will be worse.

Would you expect a trans woman who has been on puberty blockers, lifelong hormones and top and bottom surgery to be anywhere near safe in a mens' unit?

Interestingly, the few fully-transitioned males in prison ARE in the male estate and are not the ones putting in requests to transfer. Many men are at risk in male prisons - are trans women especially high risk, or is it just that, unlike the others, they have another option? Either way my answer here is the same as above - if there are only male and female places available it is on the men's prison to look for ways to manage that.

If you're a reasonable person without a transphobic agenda, the obvious answer to those questions is no.

I am a reasonable person without a transphobic agenda. And I do not agree with you. Certainly, I don't think a reasonable person without a misogynistic agenda should be considering women's prisons, and the women in them, to be a handy resource for the safely and comfort of male people who for any reason cannot be incarcerated with men.

Because sex essentialism doesn't work in every case. Treating demographics as homogenous groups will always come at the cost of individuals on both sides of the coin.

Yes. But ignoring demographics has a greater cost. Life isn't perfect, but doing nothing because we can't be 100% perfect is far worse than doing the best we we can.

Have you read my earlier post about why we segregate? It's not some ideological idea of "sex essentialism", quite the opposite.

I agree humans should not be held up as ideological concepts. We should make pragmatic decisions based on the problems we have to fix and use the best tools, however imperfect they are, to fix them.

Right now, the tools we have are based on binary sex. Better tools could be envisioned, for example more third spaces. But until those tools actually exist, we must do the best for the people who are in need right now with the tools we have. So if you want that to change, worry less about exactly which males should be allowed to use women's resources and focus on getting them support that's properly designed just for them.

Just to confirm that Buck is open and public about being a biological woman, before anyone gets needlessly offended on Buck’s behalf

Got to say Buck looks bloody good on both of those fotos! latest

But if Buck got arrested whilst here on holiday Id expect her to go into the female prison estate. Firstly because Buck is female and secondly because it would be wrong for Buck to go in the male estate as Buck is female. Thirdly Buck would be just as vulnerable as any woman in the male prison estate.

Also Im shocked at some posters assuming they are telling off an entire group of just women women who are all completely transphobic.

On this board some of our posters are women. Some are Transmen, some are Transwomen and some are men. Some are non binary. Some are straight, some are gay, some are bisexual, some are single, some are married, some are in Throuple. Some have husbands wives or children who are at some point along the transition process from i think i might be trans to fully inverted penises. (I could list forever so i shall stop there)

But in the main by the time we have made it to this board we are as a majority of the opinion that men can't actually be women and women can't actually be Men. Even if we have been ditched by with friends and family and society to think differently. That's why we are here on this board.

We tend to find that being called transphobic, homophobic, racist, terfs, bigots and witches is how these things end up when we state we don't agree with your minority stance.

So we Aren't the things in the above paragraph at all we are here because we believe in the rights of women and children and unfortunately whilst we sort transforms tho have equality in law we do not support that set the price of lots to us and unending if the safeguarding of children.

So this thug who smears his shit on walls, is capable of such rage he can bite through his own flesh and stalked a child should be nowhere near the female prisoners.

I don't care how far along his transition he is, 36DD fits and no longer had a penis and testicles, had three legs and a third nipple fit all i care. Living your best life and so that. However Under all that he is a man. And should either be sent to the State Hospital at Carstairs or remains in the male estate.

unfortunately whilst we sort transforms tho have equality in law we do not support that set the price of lots to us and unending if the safeguarding of children.

In English... Unfortunately whilst we support trans people to have equality in law we do not support that at the price of loss of safety to us and undermining the safeguarding of children.

I see the latest tactic from TRA Nats is to blame the UK government and the equality act for the Scottish prison policy 🤔

As you were.

Buck Angel paid for Buck's cosmetic surgery by starring in niche pornography as a "man with a vagina", in which men were shown vaginally penetrating Buck.

It was apparently very popular.

So no, Buck can absolutely not go in a men's prison. By the way, Buck sounds like an adult human female.

And you know one of you scratched the other really badly with her claws so you have the potential to be as dangerous as me. So I'm the same as you.

All other women need to suffer this criminal because you were beaten by your mother? I was violentky beaten by both parents - what's your point? All humans are bad let's leave the planet? You don't get to give away women's dignity because of bad experiences

And that's nonsense, the holier than thou argument of I wouldn't use one case to tarnish this group of people. If women speak in general terms they are transphobic, if they speak about particular cases they are transphobic. You are so happy to treat women as a group but transwomen are all case by case. Using made up rules. It's unfair. It's being pointed out.

My point wasn't though about whether Buck would or would not be safe in a man's prison, I was using Buck Angel as an example of how extremely masculine appearing trans men would not necessarily be a comfort to women in sex segregated groups.

I'm well aware how Buck identifies.

Yes. But ignoring demographics has a greater cost. Life isn't perfect, but doing nothing because we can't be 100% perfect is far worse than doing the best we we can

This is why I agree that a case by case basis system is what works. It's concerning and shocking to me that Andrew Burns' case felt appropriate though to approve his move and I'm praying this will be blocked.

My point is solely that I agree with the poster who got a bit wild that we have room in society to judge things on a case by case basis and in my opinion it's not right to not take into account nuanced situations regarding gender identity in prison sentences. That's what I believe. It's nothing to do with not thinking it's not possible to literally change sex.

Ffs, it's not justifying female violence to acknowledge the reality that women are violent less often, and when they are they are physically weaker so they are likely to do less harm than a man displaying equivalent levels of violence. Because men are significantly stronger. Doesn't mean no women kill or injure.

Women should not be imprisoned with men, regardless of their identity and extent of medical treatment.

Strange then, than in deadnaming the rapist, you have seemingly been deeply transphobic, due to Pink News - www.thepinknews.com/2022/10/17/suella-braverman-attacks-police-trans-people-hate-crimes/

Refusing to refer to myself by the made up nonsense term of 'cis' isn't yet a hate crime (though I'm sure there will be a push to make it so).

And you yourself have said that this rapist shouldn't be in the female prison estate so, you're declaring that it isn't TWAW in every circumstance...which by the standards of those who spout TWAW is deeply transphobic.

Tut tut.

Oh, and the whole 'case by case' thing has lead to the following being incarcerated (or demanding to be moved) in the female estate -

• Double rapist.
• 2 rapists who are demanding to be moved into women's prison
• Murderer who identifies as a baby. In a prison with a mother and baby unit.
• Murderer who 'had sex' with female inmates.
• Paedophile housed in a women's prison with a mother and baby unit who was moved into a female prison after attacking another male in a male prison.

That Buck pic is compelling but no - sex-segregated spaces should not be considered case-by-case. There will always be the exceptions but we should be finding ways to accommodate them into the current system, not changing the system to fit the tiny minority!

Males should go to male prison because they are MALE. Not because of their genitalia / muscles / Adam's apple (or lack thereof). Muddying this line and making sex subjective is what's brought us here. Trans people need to know straight up that if they end up in prison it'll correspond to their sex, end of. My advice would be don't get into trouble..!

we have room in society to judge things on a case by case basis

Of course. But until we have facilities other than one for male and one for female, that case by case outcome is about what accommodations will be made in the appropriate sex's estate. It should never be appropriating women's resources as a handy solution to "where do we put this male?"

Because while that might be the easiest solution for the authorities, it's not fair to the women who, despite what patriarchy would have us believe, are more than just resources for men.

Do we know what this person was originally jailed for? Articles talk about stuff happening in prisons but little on why the person is actually in jail. Same for the restraining order. That’s a lifelong order for public safety fears.

From an article from 2017 -

'Scott is one of only some 100 offenders in Scotland subject to an Order for Lifelong Restriction (OLR), meaning she will only be released when she is no longer considered an "unmanageable risk to public safety".

She has a string of conviction for crimes including assaults, vandalism and resisting arrests.

In 2010, she assaulted a nurse when he escaped a hospital in Crewe, Cheshire.

Four years ago, she also admitted stalking a 13-year-old girl by sending her letters from her cell at Polmont Prison, near Falkirk.

She was sentenced to 14 months and given her OLR at the High Court in Glasgow.'

Yeah I'm fully aware that plenty of people will find my views transphobic - I've openly discussed this on other threads, it's not some kind of surprise or gotcha.

This article is quite the read about this individual - it's not recent but describes some of the many crimes which they've committed while in prison

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/1492364/transgender-prisoner-tiffany-scott-andrew-burns-dangerous-sheriff/

Boiledbeetle · Today 03:19

In English... Unfortunately whilst we support trans people to have equality in law we do not support that at the price of loss of safety to us and undermining the safeguarding of children.

I think that that is the view held by most of us.

CandlelightGlow · Today 09:03

Yeah I'm fully aware that plenty of people will find my views transphobic - I've openly discussed this on other threads, it's not some kind of surprise or gotcha.

But you are slagging us off as "transphobic," whilst showing "transphobia" yourself; it's hypocritical on your part, isn't it?

Lol you think you get to pick and choose what is and what isn’t transphobic and have the nerve to call others transphobic.

You’ve just “dead named” a transwoman and stated you don’t think he should be imprisoned with women. You clearly don’t think he is a woman or genuinely trans (because if you did you wouldn’t have used his “deadname”) so presumably you must also have doubts about the system of self ID. Do you really think you can identify out of being a transphobe just because you are prepared to use the “correct pronouns” for non-violent trans?

An example of the effects of 'case by case' on women in prison -

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/ex-prisoner-shaking-fear-sharing-29075541#

But you are slagging us off as "transphobic," whilst showing "transphobia" yourself; it's hypocritical on your part, isn't it?

It’s bizarre. Somebody who hasn’t yet come to terms with being on the wrong side of history.