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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Andrew Burns AKA Tiffany Scott

407 replies

Signalbox · 28/01/2023 11:30

Wtf is going on? Another violent man being moved to a women's prison in Scotland. A man so violent they can't even take him to court and NHS staff refuse to treat him.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/new-trans-prisoner-storm-looms-29069314

OP posts:
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34
BloodAndFire · 31/01/2023 14:30

CandlelightGlow · 30/01/2023 21:36

No I'm not going to flounce! It's not some big secret surely? If someone tells me they are a trans woman and told me they used she/her pronouns I would assume that they wanted me to refer to them as a woman. I don't have any worries that this person would believe they were literally a natal woman but that they felt trans (a feeling I can't relate to) and so had transitioned. Though I can't imagine what it must be like to feel trans, as someone who lives in a world where characteristics, physical, emotional, aesthetic and social characteristics, are associated with not only masculinity and femininity but deeper than that into maleness and femaleness, I have no problem understanding that gender dysphoria and a sense of not identifying with your biological gender is real. The fact that people put up with abuse and discrimination and that they ask to be referred to as the opposite of their birth sex tells me.

I genuinely don't understand what the whole confusion and I don't understand how the fact that there is a definitive reality of biological sex conflicts with the idea that someone could have a gender identity.

If it's about gender identity and not biological sex, why are there so many males in female sport?

Look up Lia Thomas, laurel Hubbard, rachael mckinnon, hannah mouncey, etc.

Sport has nothing to do with gender identity. It's about sexed bodies. So why are these males competing against females?

Datun · 31/01/2023 14:39

Riley Gaines, a woman, testifying about the impact of this ideology on her.

She will be one of tens of thousands.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4732497-riley-gaines-testifies-about-competing-against-lia-thomas?reply=123533332

it's a difficult watch.

GailBlancheViola · 31/01/2023 14:40

I suppose that is the difference between us. I just don't assume that most trans people are identifying as trans to be manipulative or predatory. That's why I would always use preferred pronouns etc

I don't assume all men are manipulative, predatory or violent but I know damn well that some are and they are indistinguishable from the men that aren't until it is too fucking late, the same applies to transwomen bearing in mind that they are male, they have to be male to qualify as transwomen it's the number one criteria.

All males, no matter how they identify, whatever they have done or not done to their bodies chemically, surgically or cosmetically must be kept out of all women's spaces and services FULL STOP, THE END. I care not one jot whether that upsets them or hurts their feelings, the majority of males manage not to cry into their beer about not being allowed into female single sex spaces and services, they accept it and in fact welcome it because they know full well what members of their sex can be like and they value the safety, privacy, dignity and comfort of women.

Not one male relative, male friend, male acquaintance or male colleague of mine has any problem accepting and sharing male sex segregated spaces and services with transwomen - not a single one and they are not unusual in this therefore the cries of transwomen aren't safe in male single sex spaces and services is just emotional bullshit and it's high time it was exposed as such.

ScrollingLeaves · 31/01/2023 14:51

This petition to update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic ‘sex ‘ is biological sex,

is precisely about this.

Let’s get rid of any confusion.

To sign the petition
⬇️

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/623243

Datun · 31/01/2023 14:59

I suppose that is the difference between us. I just don't assume that most trans people are identifying as trans to be manipulative or predatory. That's why I would always use preferred pronouns etc

Well, I'd be really interested to know whether, if you did think they were being manipulative, and had successfully convinced the people around you of things that you knew were true, you would simply use the right pronouns.

Because I bet you wouldn't.

Datun · 31/01/2023 15:02

*weren't true

SinnerBoy · 31/01/2023 15:03

Datun · Today 14:20

A woman was raped in hospital and it took her a whole year for the NHS to finally concede that she was raped, because they had maintained she couldn't have been because no men were in the ward, despite them knowing there was.

As it's an offence to give a false statement to the Police, I'm still bemused that whoever told the Police that it couldn't have happened, because only women were on the ward, has not been charged.

CaveMum · 31/01/2023 17:08

Kirstie Allsopp has been peaked! She was previously quite vocal about “be kind” but it looks like the scales have fallen from her eyes!

twitter.com/kirstiemallsopp/status/1620359132363767808?s=46&t=_Ujcj4o7nPFQn-A1rUrvMQ

NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 31/01/2023 17:10

CaveMum · 31/01/2023 17:08

Kirstie Allsopp has been peaked! She was previously quite vocal about “be kind” but it looks like the scales have fallen from her eyes!

twitter.com/kirstiemallsopp/status/1620359132363767808?s=46&t=_Ujcj4o7nPFQn-A1rUrvMQ

i screenshotted a tweet from Kirsty late last night!

Welcome to Tervish side, KA’

Andrew Burns AKA Tiffany Scott
Boiledbeetle · 31/01/2023 17:13

CaveMum · 31/01/2023 17:08

Kirstie Allsopp has been peaked! She was previously quite vocal about “be kind” but it looks like the scales have fallen from her eyes!

twitter.com/kirstiemallsopp/status/1620359132363767808?s=46&t=_Ujcj4o7nPFQn-A1rUrvMQ

I think a lot of these women have just been too scared to fuck their career. But they can see they are not as alone as they thought they were.

Strength in numbers.

NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 31/01/2023 17:16

I’m just putting this down here, so we can watch it age.

Have a feeling it will be more like milk than than scotch…

Andrew Burns AKA Tiffany Scott
Boiledbeetle · 31/01/2023 17:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Datun · 31/01/2023 18:24

SinnerBoy · 31/01/2023 15:03

Datun · Today 14:20

A woman was raped in hospital and it took her a whole year for the NHS to finally concede that she was raped, because they had maintained she couldn't have been because no men were in the ward, despite them knowing there was.

As it's an offence to give a false statement to the Police, I'm still bemused that whoever told the Police that it couldn't have happened, because only women were on the ward, has not been charged.

Me too. I don't know the full extent of that story, because they should absolutely be prosecuted, and the woman compensated. The whole thing was unbelievable. (And I need a new word!!!)

Datun · 31/01/2023 18:27

CaveMum · 31/01/2023 17:08

Kirstie Allsopp has been peaked! She was previously quite vocal about “be kind” but it looks like the scales have fallen from her eyes!

twitter.com/kirstiemallsopp/status/1620359132363767808?s=46&t=_Ujcj4o7nPFQn-A1rUrvMQ

Yes that would indicate that she can't quite believe her ears, or eyes.

Welcome to the club Kirsty.

SinnerBoy · 31/01/2023 18:50

Datun · Today 18:24

(And I need a new word!!!)

Because you are speechless at that, I asume?

Datun · 31/01/2023 20:31

SinnerBoy · 31/01/2023 18:50

Datun · Today 18:24

(And I need a new word!!!)

Because you are speechless at that, I asume?

I need something to replace unbelievable, breathtaking, ludicrous, nonsense and, er, wanky sexist pigs.

Boiledbeetle · 31/01/2023 22:51

Datun · 31/01/2023 18:24

Me too. I don't know the full extent of that story, because they should absolutely be prosecuted, and the woman compensated. The whole thing was unbelievable. (And I need a new word!!!)

Mind-boggling has a nice ring to it.

Needmoresleep · 01/02/2023 02:35

I wonder what the fall out will be for the Guardian and BBC.

Kirsty is not alone in believing she is a good and caring person who is informed by the Guardian.She probably believes that the Mail and GBTV are beyond the pale. I had a similar conversation before Christmas with a lovely professional couple who were very "why didn't we know" as I, backed up by a couple of men, explained why we needed to worry for our daughters.

Both outlets have utterly failed both their readers/viewers. Both have failed women and girls. Both have been so important in shaping the thinking of the new 'establishment', the people who work for media, head charities and arts organisations and Oxbridge colleges and in turn the Liberal left including the Labour Party. This is clearly denting the SNPs credibility, but once people's eyes open, what does the Guardian or indeed the Labour Party do? For too long they seem to have thought their role is to tell people what they ought to think. Now they probably need to reverse ferret and listen to what readers and members have been trying to tell them. Will they?

Needmoresleep · 01/02/2023 02:42

I should add that on many things GBTV is still beyond the pale, but I am an adult and capable of forming my own views. If I disagree with something it allows me to consider why. Perhaps something more people might try. Debate using ad hominen attacks is so pre Covid. When we get to the point where an apparently decent and popular Labour MP like Rosie Duffield can only get a platform on GBTV to discuss major human rights issues, our mainstream media is in a sorry state.

Beowulfa · 01/02/2023 10:18

I'm intrigued as to why this individual is not in the Scottish equivalent of Broadmoor or Rampton. Surely a secure hospital is better placed to deal with someone this disturbed?

nilsmousehammer · 01/02/2023 10:32

Beowulfa · 01/02/2023 10:18

I'm intrigued as to why this individual is not in the Scottish equivalent of Broadmoor or Rampton. Surely a secure hospital is better placed to deal with someone this disturbed?

This.

It implies that if this individual is in the main system, wtf is 'severe' enough to be in secure psychiatric prison care? Although you can read prison guard accounts of their time on places like K wing of Strangeways, dealing with similar behaviours to the ones in the press reported regarding Scott. Men who required multiple guards ready and present when the door was unlocked, guards required in full riot gear to manage a prisoner trying to harm themselves or others. And those books make many, many references to how many are held in prison in desperate need of psychiatric care and don't get it.

The 2019 review of Cornton Vale, which is one of the only two women's prisons in Scotland, reported that women were found in urgent need of psychiatric treatment and care, and should not have been in a prison environment. And the very very high percentages of women who had a history of abuse (over three quarters) and mental health needs (more than three quarters.) And the high numbers of suicides at Cornton Vale.

These are the women that the prison estate was about to dump Bryson and Scott on.

CaveMum · 01/02/2023 10:41

The next thing I would like to happen is for someone to ask Rishi at PMQs what the policy in English prisons is (we know) and what urgent action is going to be taken to protect women.

Signalbox · 01/02/2023 11:44

Beowulfa · 01/02/2023 10:18

I'm intrigued as to why this individual is not in the Scottish equivalent of Broadmoor or Rampton. Surely a secure hospital is better placed to deal with someone this disturbed?

I’m guessing that whatever personality disorder this person has is not one that is treatable.

OP posts:
nilsmousehammer · 01/02/2023 11:51

CaveMum · 01/02/2023 10:41

The next thing I would like to happen is for someone to ask Rishi at PMQs what the policy in English prisons is (we know) and what urgent action is going to be taken to protect women.

They released the document the week it happened, well ahead of the SNP responding, that males with male genitalia or who had committed sexual offenses would not be accessing female prisons (no clarity as to whether they intend to use the exceptions in the EqA regarding GRCs in this), and that males currently in female prisons would be reviewed. Full document due shortly.

But yes, they saw this coming and did something. The devil of course will be in the detail and pressuring at PMQs would be a very, very good thing.

nilsmousehammer · 01/02/2023 11:55

It comes down really to two things that are going to have to be faced:

TQ+ male access to GRCs and female spaces is a conditional, gatekept thing and not all TQ+ male people will be permitted it

or

TQ+ male recognition and access to GRCs is unconditional and available to all males, and because this means the population contains unacceptable risk, does not include access to female spaces. Third spaces can be provided.

This still only looks at the rights of women being nothing more than the right not to be assaulted, raped or worse, but hey, it's a start.

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