Women's rights general conversations - Thread 3

[Kucinghitam]

Continuation of Thread 2.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions, grr"- that sort of thing).

If I've calculated it right, there are 17,576,000,000 combinations which with a population of ~60 million gives ~290 generations before they need to start again.

@ErrolTheDragon - Arf! I was thinking along those lines (while preparing pizza) and going to say that with 24 letters (excluding I and O to avoid confusion with 1 and 0) and 10 numbers, the permutations of LL NN NN NN L must be vast. I had planned to work it out after eating said pizza. So thank you. 💐

Funnily enough I was having to do these kinds of calculations earlier and failing miserably

I could have done things like that in my head when I was 8. I blame puberty.

A Graunista breaks ranks.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/28/forget-andrew-tate-what-about-the-host-of-misogynists-in-labours-ranks

A Graunista breaks ranks.

NB mach - that's in the Observer.

And Catherine Bennett has long since made her position clear. Good piece nonetheless. Am viscerally disappointed in Labour. Duffield’s treatment is shameful.

Just had a glorious rant at Rob on Sarah and his thread re his latest debate with Sarah. She called him he. Live on tv. Sat next to him. She is a Fucking legend.

I still try now but find is like counting sheep and fall asleep before I've worked out the answer.

A mere 13,824,000,000 sensibly excluding I and O so 230 generations.

NB mach - that's in the Observer.

I just find it hard to think of it as a separate thing 🤷

I wonder what's going to happen in Canterbury at the next election. Will Rosie Duffield be de-selected and replaced with someone more "palatable" as a sop to the student vote? Because I think it was getting those voters out that got her elected. On the other hand, there's the non-student women's vote to consider.

A strongly worded Scotsman comment piece on Sturgeon’s latest:

https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/gender-recognition-reform-bill-nicola-sturgeons-disgraceful-attack-on-critics-suggest-she-has-lost-the-plot-scotsman-comment-4004822

There's also an article in the Scotsman that's behind a paywall, it seems (surely not!) to have been written by one of the beach boys.

Leaving it here in case someone can do a thing.

www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/gender-recognition-reform-bill-nicola-sturgeon-insults-scotlands-intelligence-by-denying-relevance-of-rape-case-to-her-legislation-brian-wilson-4004375?dicbo=v2-c8d6386559b4c62b8d43a2a939facca7

If I didn't know better, I'd think Julie Bindel had access to a time machine

twitter.com/bindelj/status/1619264949762822145?s=20&t=m7FyyPxTl-tzWo7DX1UOgw

Wow Julie!

This is a rather fabulous thread - starts with an interesting discussion then up pop both Robin and Sarah, Robin doesn't like the questions, calls the women witches and leaves, cue lots of very funny comments and some very pertinent posts especially from BoiledBeetle IMO, and, and and:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/sarah-phillimore-and-robin-moira-white-interviewed-by-andrew-doyle

You rang?@MmePoppySeedDefage I'm right at a critical clipped wing of robin steeped in self loathing and hypocrisy stage in my straightening out the dictionary with a click of your fingers spell but keep getting distracted. I've hoovered next doors ceiling three times by accident so far this morning.

Sarah has been in to comment this morning.

She is still rather angry i think.

The Clip from last night is also on the thread.

Robin truly did rip up the rule book last night with his words.but his reckoning we are free to feel and say what we like now!!

He did - very well-spotted and argued!

And I was sorry to hear about your early life. The thread was moving so quickly, no one commented I think, but I am sure I was not alone in noticing and feeling great sympathy, and admiration for you.

Moderators, if reported this post is merely reflecting the new rules Robin himself announced on tv yesterday with regards deciding if a person is a transperson or not.

So honestly Robin will be fine to let this stand as he did the same last night on live tv. (Watch the video link a few posts up if you need to check the interview starts at about 1hr 20 minutes in)

So if it's good enough for Robin it's good enough for me.

I am just grateful to Robin for listening to our opinions on here and then being so honest in his opinions and thoughts on transpeople.

Robin our resident transwoman barrister, who had insisted on she/her up until now, stated on live tv last night that Isla probably wasn't actually trans, but pretending. He then decided that despite Isla being a transwoman and wanting people to use she/her pronouns, off his own back he instantly freed us all from this pronoun and misgendering rubbish. As Robin decided he was perfectly entitled to say what he liked. And decided he was going to just decide to calls a transwoman they/them, because he was unsure as to Islas trans status and thought Isla was probably lying.

Well if Robin can gatekeep transness and believe that a trans person is lying about being trans especially when they've done something bad and as he's not sure decide not to use a persons preferred pronouns. Then so can we.

Which means that if we women aren't sure that a man is a woman, or think a man is is lying about being a woman or if we decide a transwoman doesn't have enough moral fortitude to be allowed to claim trans status based on some moral vice we may or may not know they have yet, or just if we think he's lying we can choose which pronouns to use for that person. None of this having to always use someone's preferred pronouns, Robin himself released us from that leash last night.

Sarah of course noticed and immediately changed her speech to reflect the new rules. And followed Robin's lead And referred to Robin as he. And the sky didn't fall in!

And as men can't actually be women, then unfortunately I can't be sure Robin is a woman. I am entitled to think and believe that and I do, just like he did with Isla, that he is lying. I have definitely decided based on the insinuation that we are witches that his moral compass is off, and based on all that I think Robin is a man and I am happy to follow Robin's new rules

Thank you Robin. What a wonderful man you are. I'm sure we'll be able to have much better discussions with you going forward now you have given us permission to be truthful to our thoughts. I'm so glad you have decided that policing people's speech is not enforcable.

The women of mumsnet thank you.

And if you get this deleted then you are hypocrite.

Thank you for you kind words. Now let's see if the above survives the hour

Have you guys seen this, from the beauty students thread in AIBU?

t.co/6R6FRhzHGg

Yes, I read that earlier and was appalled.

The one good thing happening at the moment is that this shit show is being exposed and everyone is seeing what 'be kind' has wrought.

Yeah. Reading that thread, you are absolutely confronted by the double think and traps that have been set for women. Thankfully, it's starting to get pulled open.

And do you know what? Congratulations to all of us who have kept talking in the face of contempt and abuse. I know that most of the credit is due to an extremely brave cohort among whom I do not count myself, but I'm a bit pleased that I never submitted to being intimidated into pretending to think something I know to be a lie.

Did anyone else see Julie Bindel on GB News? She was good and made no bones about her opinion. twitter.com/bindelj/status/1619665344041484289