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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 3

992 replies

Kucinghitam · 25/01/2023 15:07

Continuation of Thread 2.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions, grr"- that sort of thing).

OP posts:
Thread gallery
28
spannasaurus · 02/02/2023 23:44

It was Tom conti

ScrollingLeaves · 02/02/2023 23:48

Thank you but it was not,
This Tom was very blunt in saying that TW are not W and that reversing sexes in plays is senseless.

It wasn’t long ago at all and people on here were saying how much they loved him for it.

IcakethereforeIam · 02/02/2023 23:58

It was that guy who was in Shirley Valentine, I think.

spannasaurus · 03/02/2023 00:10

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/tom-conti-radio-4-just-now?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share
Tom conti was the man being very blunt

Britinme · 03/02/2023 03:32

Long but interesting article here: www.thecut.com/2016/02/fight-over-trans-kids-got-a-researcher-fired.html

NotDrowningJustCrowing · 03/02/2023 03:58

The talk of conversion therapy really annoys me because it undermines what has happened and is still happening among the more fundamentalist of Christian areas, to young gay men and women. It is not conversion therapy when you are doing the right thing by children and seeing how their "dysphoria" plays out before going in all guns blazing. Helping someone to be comfortable in their own body as it is is in no way conversion and in no way analogous to what so many young gay people have gone through.

I was also thinking about dysphoria today because I had a friend who had bog standard "I'm ugly and I hate my face and my body" dysphoria. Funnily enough, the cure for that wasn't a shed load of plastic surgery to make her body and face "not ugly" because 1. She wasn't ugly, and 2. dysphoria is never just about external elements. I sometimes find it hard to comprehend how far we've gone in totally and utterly medicalising something that really isn't a medical issue at all. I guess I shouldn't be surprised because there's a lot of money to be made from the surgeries and medication.

duc748 · 03/02/2023 11:36

Right, Crows. Cos actually, we are the ones 'being kind', not those cynical bastards.

ScrollingLeaves · 03/02/2023 15:30

Britinme · Today 03:32
Long but interesting article here:
www.thecut.com/2016/02/fight-over-trans-kids-got-a-researcher-fired.html

That is horrifying. How could a country like Canada be so backward? Maybe it is to do with the medical and pharmaceutical industries pushing the transgender agenda. It is utterly mad.

Dod you see the Finnish report about gender dysphoric/gender questioning children which says the opposite?
twitter.com/LeorSapir/status/1620448081039994881

Britinme · 03/02/2023 21:12

@ScrollingLeaves yes I read that. The medical system in Canada is quite different to that here in the USA, so I think it's more likely to be a case of ideological capture.

duc748 · 03/02/2023 21:21

I just read that Finnish piece. Sounded like very sensible words from the Prof there, to me. Cut through some of the bullshit. Cui bono.

lifeturnsonadime · 03/02/2023 22:10

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4734377-what-is-a-woman?page=10&reply=123625344

please look at this thread.

duc748 · 03/02/2023 22:56

I was reading the UKA Athletics thread, and this post stuck out. I'm certainly not going to comment there (some learned legal comment followed which frankly went way over my head), but I thought is was worth posting here. Just sounded like "this is how it should be" to me.

I suggest repeal the GRA and modify the Equality Act to make 'gender identity' no more than a protected belief. I.e. you are protected against harassment and discrimination but 'gender identity' cannot be an organising category in the way that sex is.

We will have to have some way of providing recognition of a 'legal sex' unless we leave the Council of Europe and the ECHR - the Goodwin judgment of 2002 was a recognition that the UK had failed to protect the rights of transexuals to be able to hide their birth sex on official documents etc.

So I would suggest a procedure to obtain a 'Certificate Changing Legal Sex' (remove all mentions to gender, its hopelessly poisoned now) which would enable a person to change a driving licence and passport. Birth certificates must remain unchanged but we could issue 'short form' birth certificates which didn't mention sex at all if people were upset by that.

Keep the gender dysporia diagnosis and 2 year reflection period - junk 'living as a woman' as no one knows what that means. That should hopefully weed out at least some of the malicious and the sexual predators.

Make sure that the EA sets out very clearly when biological sex trumps legal sex.

I have no idea if these proposals would work or be accepted by many/any. We should have been having these conversations since 2018 at the least. Hopefully we will start now.

duc748 · 03/02/2023 23:06

I just had occasion to dip into the Baby Names thread (don't ask), and, just, wow! I mean, why would anyone name their daughter Delilah? I mean, why... 😁

Unless it is a spoof, but didn't seem so.

Ginmonkeyagain · 04/02/2023 09:37

I had an interesting chat with Mr Monkey about the UK Athletics stuff. He is a very keen amateur runner, he runs running clubs and is a regular marathon runner. His views were from a distance running POV.

His

In the big races particularly (eg ones that have prize money, media attention and qualiftying status) elite men and elite women should run separately, not because there is a danger to women of them running together (as there might be in contact sports) but because women would not receive the prominence as finishers - it would be likely in a mixed elite race the first dozen or more finishers would be men.

For amatiers he sees no issues whith the sexes running together but noted there is a very valid reason for sex being recorded as results will be sorted by sex - so you get results by fastest woman and fastest man etc.if sex was not recorded women's achievements would be lost as it is likely in many races the first woman would be well below a largish group of men.

There are also potential knock on effects for amateur entry in to marathons like Boston where you need a set qualifying time (usually defined as a time good for your age and sex)

Ginmonkeyagain · 04/02/2023 09:38

Oops, not sure where that rogue "His" came from!

SinnerBoy · 04/02/2023 09:41

duc748 · Yesterday 23:06

I just had occasion to dip into the Baby Names thread (don't ask), and, just, wow! I mean, why would anyone name their daughter Delilah?

There was a Delilah at my daughter's previous school.

mach2 · 04/02/2023 11:51

I feel sick.

Boiledbeetle · 04/02/2023 12:21

No words.

Well...

Fuck me!

And why always Fucking pink!

SulisMinerva · 04/02/2023 12:56

That is so disturbing!

duc748 · 04/02/2023 13:01

Just child abuse.

Boiledbeetle · 04/02/2023 13:03

In any other situation those children would not be with them any longer. They would have been removed for their own safety.

StephanieSuperpowers · 04/02/2023 13:06

Oddly, if anyone tried to interve, it feels like it would be them in the wrong.

ScrollingLeaves · 04/02/2023 15:57

bignosebignose · Today 11:10
WTAF?

twitter.com/againstgrmrs/status/1621330726502162432?s=20&t=AgdmPxDdm62_CqNyScq3Gg

Transhausens by Proxy as an ex Tavistick Doctor labels the mental derangement of parents like these.

These children aren’t trans. They were “ expanded” by this form of child abuse.

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