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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

7 yo boy wants to wear dress and tights to school

256 replies

TotallyAverage · 25/01/2023 14:22

My DS has not long turned 7. We've always allowed him to choose his clothes and shoes, toys, books etc as much as he is interested so he has occasionally worn pink trainers and sparkly hairbands etc but generally isn't bothered and just wears navy tracksuit bottoms and a Minecraft/super mario t-shirt. Lately he's been pushing more and more to wear dresses and tights especially to school and I'm not sure how best to reply.

We've always tried to teach him that it doesn't matter how he dresses, what his hair looks like, what toys or films he likes, he's a boy and is male. Boys and girls can like anything they want to, there's no such thing as boys toys etc.

We've done this in a fairly gentle way but always been consistent, I've always thought it was the right thing to do. I'm not totally sure now, as he is questioning why he can't wear a dress to school, if it doesn't change who he is. Essentially asking me to put my money where my mouth is!

As a 3, 4, 5 year old at nursery I'd have let him, he had plenty of princess clothes and things he could wear, but to school/beavers etc? I also don't want anyone to make more of it than it is. We're in Scotland and I feel like we have to be extra careful how we discuss sex and gender with the children.

I'm not sure I'm expressing myself very well here, I'm basically trying to say to him dresses are only for girls, but also that he can be who he wants and wear what he wants... I'm in a guddle with it. Maybe I'm overthinking? Any wisdom?!

OP posts:
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Johnnysgirl · 08/03/2023 14:32

ElonsMusky · 08/03/2023 01:47

sounds like your son is trans.

Because all a boy has to do is put on a skirt, and he's no longer a boy...
For the love of Christ, stop pedalling this shit, will you? Hmm

BabyStopCryin · 08/03/2023 14:39

My sister used to like dressing up as an astronaut when she was a kid. Didn’t make her a space (wo)man.

KatieAlcock · 08/03/2023 16:40

Researcher here.

The toilet explanation is rubbish because many men wear "skirts" (sarongs, kilts) and women wear trousers (shalwar kamiz) in many societies.

I think the real reason is that society thinks men should wear trousers and women skirts - even though we don't all do that - and school uniform is much more old fashioned than clothes for other occasions. Think about the things you'd never say to a girl (ooh you can't hang upside down on the monkey bars, oh you can't play football, oh don't go out in the wet) outside of school, that school uniform says to them. Skirts are impractical for monkey bars, t-bar shoes are useless for football and your socks get wet.

I would get at his reasoning. He is young enough that he may still think this will turn him into a girl. Even if he knows that boys and girls have different bodies, this doesn't necessarily mean he will fully understand.

If it's just to be different, has he tried it. If his sister/girls in his class say "it's more comfy" they may not really know why themselves. If he thinks he'll get something glittery because he hasn't thought it through, or thinks school uniform is free, or that getting loads of new uniform isn't un-eco-friendly, a quick hint to that effect should help.

If you ARE prepared to buy new and he seems to understand the implications, I'd get him one pair/skirt to try - and have a FIRM conversation with school about why this is.

My DD wore trousers in YR/Y1 when all the other girls were wearing trousers but the uniform has now changed to trousers for everyone. She got her brother's hand me downs and didn't question it. If she had asked for skirts, I'd have gone with the "save the planet" line topped up with "but you like the monkey bars" but would possibly have got her some to try if she had thought it through.

My DS liked sparkly dress up skirts in nursery like all the other boys did, I have never heard of a nursery aged boy teased for that.

Both of them fell into the "if you put on a tiara you're a girl, if you cut your hair you're a boy"' school of early childhood cognitive thought. But children understand at an earlier age that THEY haven't changed sex than they understand that OTHER children haven't changed sex.

PearCrumbleCustard · 08/03/2023 17:25

I do think kids should wear what they like, but there are social norms which I don’t think are going to damage them. So if I had a kid who wanted dresses and tights, then I’d say that’s for home. Mainly because I don’t think it’s so much of a problem at age 7 but it will increasingly be as he gets older and his body changes. He also doesn’t have the adult capacity to have any perspective as to how he might feel having dressed as a girl at school for years, in a way that is very different from other pupils.

I have two DSs with SEN, the first liked to dress in quite a unique style, when he got older he said he felt mid teens a lot of embarassment about doing this and wished I’d been more encouraging of him to dress the same as others. It was a perspective I’d not thought of, I thought I was doing the best by him but their young minds change quite a lot.

My second with SEN doesn’t really like some of his uniform, it actually isn’t good in a sensory way and also he likes to wear pink sometimes so we’ve come to a compromise with the school, he wears the tracksuit all days, and wears pink at home.

ScrollingLeaves · 08/03/2023 17:38

Researcher here.

The toilet explanation is rubbish because many men wear "skirts" (sarongs, kilts) and women wear trousers (shalwar kamiz) in many societies.

I think the real reason is that society thinks men should wear trousers and women skirts - even though we don't all do that - and school uniform is much more old fashioned than clothes for other occasions. Think about the things you'd never say to a girl (ooh you can't hang upside down on the monkey bars, oh you can't play football, oh don't go out in the wet) outside of school, that school uniform says to them. Skirts are impractical for monkey bars, t-bar shoes are useless for football and your socks get wet.

I would get at his reasoning. He is young enough that he may still think this will turn him into a girl. Even if he knows that boys and girls have different bodies, this doesn't necessarily mean he will fully understand.

If it's just to be different, has he tried it. If his sister/girls in his class say "it's more comfy" they may not really know why themselves. If he thinks he'll get something glittery because he hasn't thought it through, or thinks school uniform is free, or that getting loads of new uniform isn't un-eco-friendly, a quick hint to that effect should help.

If you ARE prepared to buy new and he seems to understand the implications, I'd get him one pair/skirt to try - and have a FIRM conversation with school about why this is.

My DD wore trousers in YR/Y1 when all the other girls were wearing trousers but the uniform has now changed to trousers for everyone. She got her brother's hand me downs and didn't question it. If she had asked for skirts, I'd have gone with the "save the planet" line topped up with "but you like the monkey bars" but would possibly have got her some to try if she had thought it through.

My DS liked sparkly dress up skirts in nursery like all the other boys did, I have never heard of a nursery aged boy teased for that.

Both of them fell into the "if you put on a tiara you're a girl, if you cut your hair you're a boy"' school of early childhood cognitive thought. But children understand at an earlier age that THEY haven't changed sex than they understand that OTHER children haven't changed sex

How interesting, and helpful.

Thank you for coming on. Is it your video where little children are presented with a woman doll and a male doll, based on their clothes, and when the male doll is given the woman’s handbag the child thinks the I’ll is now a woman?

I don’t mean to derail OPs thread, and this is not related to her DS, but as you are here I just wanted to ask in light of what you have said: Do you agree with Helen Joyce, talking about Drag Queen Story Hour, that it is very easy to get a little child to think the man they are looking at is really a woman, and that also, given magical thinking at that age, very easy for them to get the idea they can change sex?

KatieAlcock · 08/03/2023 17:59

@ScrollingLeaves they already think that people can change sex - I am all for gender non conforming dress but it helps if adults explain it's dressing up. Pantomime dames just show children you can be a man in a dress and female astronauts show that women can do anything.

It's the sexual aspect to drag queens that worries me.

ScrollingLeaves · 08/03/2023 18:10

drspouse Today 17:59
Drag Queens also read Gender ideology books to children.

ScrollingLeaves · 08/03/2023 18:12

This reply has been withdrawn

We're removing this post as it could be identifying for the poster being discussed.

ElonsMusky · 08/03/2023 20:29

Johnnysgirl · 08/03/2023 14:32

Because all a boy has to do is put on a skirt, and he's no longer a boy...
For the love of Christ, stop pedalling this shit, will you? Hmm

no of course not. It's the unending and repeated affinity for "girls'"things. He's not going to out grow it. Be in denial if you want. lol.

RoseslnTheHospital · 08/03/2023 20:34

What are "girls things"??

twelly · 08/03/2023 20:34

I think I would explain there is a school uniform and that he needs to wear the school uniform that boys wear - he is a boy and therefore he needs to follow the rules at the school

Johnnysgirl · 08/03/2023 20:36

ElonsMusky · 08/03/2023 20:29

no of course not. It's the unending and repeated affinity for "girls'"things. He's not going to out grow it. Be in denial if you want. lol.

Op says he wears navy tracksuit bottoms and Minecraft T-shirts. Even she hasn't mentioned "an unending and repeated affinity for girls things", whatever they might be; so just stop your nonsense.

StillWeRise · 08/03/2023 20:42

Now then ladies
a man has come and given his diagnosis
lucky we have him and don't have to listen to the opinions of
the childs own mother
a developmental psychologist
many other mothers

ScrollingLeaves · 08/03/2023 20:48

@drspouse@drspouse

“ScrollingLeaves · Today 18:12
This reply has been withdrawn
We're removing this post as it could be identifying for the poster being discussed.”

I had used your name as it is in the post above to thank you. Did you realise you have used that same name above? You might want to report your post and ask for that to be redacted

NatashaDancing · 08/03/2023 21:05

The OP and her family are in Scotland, so if there's one place in the UK where men and boys going to the toilet whilst wearing a skirtlike item of clothing is a pretty normal thing to do, it's there!

Bit of an aside but why do some posters persist with this "everyone in Scotland wears kilts" myth. They really, really don't.

justgotosleepffs · 08/03/2023 21:52

I think something really important to consider if you let him wear a skirt is the potential for indoctrination by trendy teachers /TAs who will believe that wearing a skirt makes him a transgirl, and will encourage him to accept his true self and then accuse you of transphobia if you dont agree with them.

It's not about you being broad-minded, it's about protecting him from harm from others

Anna8089 · 15/01/2024 04:05

Brought it on by yourself by the sounds of it. I would say no.

TommyNever · 15/01/2024 06:28

justgotosleepffs · 08/03/2023 21:52

I think something really important to consider if you let him wear a skirt is the potential for indoctrination by trendy teachers /TAs who will believe that wearing a skirt makes him a transgirl, and will encourage him to accept his true self and then accuse you of transphobia if you dont agree with them.

It's not about you being broad-minded, it's about protecting him from harm from others

Yes I think that's the most important consideration. There's already at least one poster in this thread saying "I think your son is trans".... I expect there'd be an avalanche of such "wisdom" if he went to school in a dress.

In an ideal world, kids could wear whatever they like without sexist judgements being passed, but if anything the real world is now even more sexist than it was in my childhood, thanks in large part to trans ideology.

AmateurNoun · 15/01/2024 06:43

Zombie thread 🧟‍♀️

TommyNever · 15/01/2024 07:03

AmateurNoun · 15/01/2024 06:43

Zombie thread 🧟‍♀️

Yes I just noticed the dates....

SaffronSpice · 15/01/2024 07:29

With the trans thing in school there is no way I would allow my son to wear a skirt to school. How much of this ideology has your school already be inculcating into your son? Has he already been told he can choose whether he wants to be a boy or girl? You need to have that conversation with him. Make sure he knows this is impossible whatever stories school may tell.

I would also say no, he has his uniform so you don’t intend to buy any more.

On the point of kilts; you don’t wear these with tights.

SaffronSpice · 15/01/2024 07:30

AmateurNoun · 15/01/2024 06:43

Zombie thread 🧟‍♀️

Thanks

TheClogLady · 15/01/2024 10:17

I wonder how it panned out? Any update @TotallyAverage?

Hope your son is still his happy and creative self 🌷

TotallyAverage · 15/01/2024 10:36

Hello! Yes a zombie thread. He's fabulous thank you! A lovely kind and gentle wee boy.

He hasn't asked for dresses or skirts lately, he's going through a phase of dressing in a blazer and bow tie at home (James Bond fan) but he knows he can ask me anything and we can have a chat about it. He's very curious about the world and so much more self assured and confident than I was at that age. I wasn't able to speak to my parents very openly and I want his life to be different.

Now just to keep muddling through parenting with him and his sisters for another couple of decades!

OP posts:
TheClogLady · 15/01/2024 10:39

He sounds fabulous! 😍

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