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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

7 yo boy wants to wear dress and tights to school

256 replies

TotallyAverage · 25/01/2023 14:22

My DS has not long turned 7. We've always allowed him to choose his clothes and shoes, toys, books etc as much as he is interested so he has occasionally worn pink trainers and sparkly hairbands etc but generally isn't bothered and just wears navy tracksuit bottoms and a Minecraft/super mario t-shirt. Lately he's been pushing more and more to wear dresses and tights especially to school and I'm not sure how best to reply.

We've always tried to teach him that it doesn't matter how he dresses, what his hair looks like, what toys or films he likes, he's a boy and is male. Boys and girls can like anything they want to, there's no such thing as boys toys etc.

We've done this in a fairly gentle way but always been consistent, I've always thought it was the right thing to do. I'm not totally sure now, as he is questioning why he can't wear a dress to school, if it doesn't change who he is. Essentially asking me to put my money where my mouth is!

As a 3, 4, 5 year old at nursery I'd have let him, he had plenty of princess clothes and things he could wear, but to school/beavers etc? I also don't want anyone to make more of it than it is. We're in Scotland and I feel like we have to be extra careful how we discuss sex and gender with the children.

I'm not sure I'm expressing myself very well here, I'm basically trying to say to him dresses are only for girls, but also that he can be who he wants and wear what he wants... I'm in a guddle with it. Maybe I'm overthinking? Any wisdom?!

OP posts:
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IScreamAtMichaelangelos · 25/01/2023 18:15

My DS2 wears tights under trousers as it's warmer. Compromise?

Johnnysgirl · 25/01/2023 18:15

Holliegee · 25/01/2023 18:04

The whole point of ‘uniform’ is, that everyone conforms!

He is 7 and shouldn’t be testing boundaries he should be messing with snails,painting,using glitter, swimming and shouting and bawling like all 7 years olds male and female do.

By giving our children ‘options’ we are placing more decision making on them that they shouldn’t have to handle in this carefree youth they have for such a short time.
Many decisions should and need to be made for them - their diet,their bath times, their bedtimes and indeed dressing practically and seasonally and we shouldn’t be encouraging children to break the rules as rules are an inevitable part of life.

So, for now-he needs to wear the uniform he already has, maybe shorts in summer.

👏👏👏
The whole thing, in a nutshell.

Helleofabore · 25/01/2023 18:17

suggestionsplease1 · 25/01/2023 16:58

I don't know that FWR can square the circle of their prevailing and conflicting ideologies on this one, OP.

On one hand there will be a sentiment that the sexes should be free to wear whatever they like, and on the other hand you will be told that you son, if he persists in this in adulthood, will be an AGP male.

Really? Looks more like your own prejudice about FWR showing that the actual discussion at hand.

StillWeRise · 25/01/2023 18:21

Nimbostratus100 · 25/01/2023 15:21

Just tell him trousers are for doing a wee the boy way and skirts are easier for doing a wee the girl way, so thats why girls are more likely to wear skirts and dresses to school

excellent!

JaggySplinter · 25/01/2023 18:23

OnTheRoll · 25/01/2023 14:55

Speaking of close-minded.

My daughter was all in awe of Harry Styles and his Vogue cover in a glamorous frock. She sounded incredulous when I expressed surprise - like why Mum he cannot wear a dress just because he is a man? of course he can.

Now I wonder how she would react if her Dad turned up at a parent's evening in a dress. Something tells me that it would embarrass her to a great extent.

It is easier to be open-minded when it doesn't concern those close to you.

Show quote history

I think that's exactly my point.

If this has challenged you to think about how open minded you are about this, that's great. Knowing and understanding your biases is really helpful. I also think a 7 yo is old enough to understand that you think his choice could have consequences (teasing etc).

FWIW, my DS at 7 did often go to school in pink sparkles (no uniform). He also had a long hair phase at 11. Now he's much older and doesn't really wear much pink at all, and has a very conventional short haircut. My DDs have gone through different princess/sparkle/emo/saved hair/long hair/conventional dressing/not do conventional dressing phases etc. I'm totally fine with it. I had my own phases too. I personally think it's all very normal.

HikingHairDontCare · 25/01/2023 18:26

Clothes are clothes and I hate that they’re gendered. In theory as long as he doesn’t think he can be a girl by wearing a dress, there shouldn’t be a problem

But, your child is very young and unfortunately won’t realise that he may be bullied or have this brought up for the rest of his school years, even if he no longer wants to wear dresses and tights. So at this age, I’d say no for school. When he’s older and able to realise the consequences like people saying horrible things (which shouldn’t happen but does) then it’s up to him. For now, I would see it as my duty to protect him from things he doesn’t yet know.

And obviously keep talking about people not being able to change sex and all that stuff.

StrawberryAnnie · 25/01/2023 18:26

TotallyAverage · 25/01/2023 15:35

Terrified to say no to him Grin I think he'd have quite a different view on that!

I'm trying to help my children see past societal norms and stereotypes without making them question the immutable nature of their own sex, as I believe that gives them a solid platform upon which to base their sense of self and worth.

I'm not sure exactly the PSE educational materials are, but it's an RC school so I think possibly quite conservative... Maybe he's just seen the priest sashaying around in a dress and thought it looked like fun Wink

I can imagine that the priests outfit does look quite fun when you are 7years old. A lot of children love the idea of costumes and fancy dress.

I’ve worked with young children and noticed that regardless or their sex, some consistently choose the most elaborate costume from a fancy dress box- whether it’s a shiny spaceman’s outfit, or a sparkly princess dress.

If there is no mandatory uniform in his school, could you take him to shops where he can pick some things that he would consider fun to wear? Bright colours, different textures etc?

VerveClique · 25/01/2023 18:28

Plus the bullying might not be ‘just for now’.

He could still be getting ‘oh remember Johnny coming to school in a dress in Year 2’ when he’s 15.

It’s smart to know when to blend in, and when to stand out. Teach your kid that.

Consufed · 25/01/2023 18:29

Let him wear a dress, and advise him to say he isn't a girl just because of what he wears, plays with etc.

queenofthewild · 25/01/2023 18:44

A boy in DS's school used to wear tights with shorts in KS1. No one batted an eyelid. He was warm and comfortable.

It may be a compromise if he wants to wear tights.

DS never asked to wear "girls" clothes but we did used to take about how strange humans are that it's considered unusual for a man to wear a dress but ladies can wear trousers and no one minds. He agreed that some "rules" are silly.

Nobody should care. Clothes are clothes and they are to keep us warm and protected from the weather. But lots of people do have an opinion on what others wear.

nothingmuchaboutjerry · 25/01/2023 18:49

I think you need a conversation with school before you make any decisions. This happened with a child at my daughters school and it was handled VERY badly. So bad in fact it made the national newspapers. This child, who was 7, was thrust infront of a whole class assembly and introduced as a girl named x who used to be a boy named y. As parents, we hadn't been told this was happening so you can imagine the questions at home time. I had to answer questions to a 5 year old which, quite honestly, I wasn't prepared for. Thankfully she's quite laid back so was a bit unbothered by it all.

Then there was the aftermath, the bullying, the uproar over the toilets, the gossip. Add to the mix it was a catholic school so parents weren't happy. Some children began repeating what they had heard at home, and it was clear the school was struggling to deal with the fallout. Eventually the child left and is now homeschooled.

So, if you are going to allow it, it needs to be done right. Both by you, and by the school.

Johnnysgirl · 25/01/2023 18:49

A boy in DS's school used to wear tights with shorts in KS1. No one batted an eyelid. He was warm and comfortable.
Why wear shorts if you want to be warm?

Original poster
TotallyAverage · 25/01/2023 18:50

Thanks for the further replies.

I think with most societal norms, there are pretty simple, logical reasons that can be explained. We don't go to school naked because of warmth/hygiene. We don't eat lunch from the floor because it's more hygienic and less messy to use plates, etc.

It's him questioning why the uniform (poloshirt, jumper, grey skirt or trousers) is different for boys and girls. I hadn't actually thought about the toilet reason but that is a good explanation.

I've mulled everything over and I do wonder if it's just a way of him questioning this aspect of society, but from a children's perspective (ie how does this affect me, how can I test that). It's possibly a bit like him asking 'can I drive the car?' and me saying no, and that leading on to chat about being a grown up to learn to drive etc. He knew from the start the answer was no, but wanted to explore the topic.

He is also very exuberant and dramatic so absolutely would love the swishyness of a big dress etc. Not sure who he gets that from... Blush

OP posts:
nilsmousehammer · 25/01/2023 18:51

He sounds great OP Grin

Ameanstreakamilewide · 25/01/2023 18:55

Itisbetter · 25/01/2023 15:10

It’s easy, you just say “no” and he continues to wear the uniform he already owns.

Well, quite. I completely agree.

He's allowed to be told 'no'. Them's the rules.

Perhaps I'm uptight, but there's no way i'd let my son leave the house wearing a dress.
Even if it's a short lived 'thing' with him, he'll always be the boy at school who wore a dress.

Divebar2021 · 25/01/2023 18:57

There was a boy at DD’s school who wore a skirt when he was about 5/6. I wasn’t actually sure at first if he was male / female but was told he was a boy. I didn’t feel I could ask anything else but everyone seemed to accept it - I think children do accept these things a lot of the time. It’s adults who muddy the waters.

queenofthewild · 25/01/2023 19:03

Johnnysgirl · 25/01/2023 18:49

A boy in DS's school used to wear tights with shorts in KS1. No one batted an eyelid. He was warm and comfortable.
Why wear shorts if you want to be warm?

School trousers aren't exactly warm. The fabric is thin.

I usually feel warmer in thick woolly tights than I do in polyester trousers.

Back when they had the doors and windows open for "covid ventilation" DS was wearing fleece lined football skins under his uniform.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 25/01/2023 19:04

Why wear shorts if you want to be warm?

I never understand that, either. I also find the trend for sporty teenagers to wear what looks like shorts with (thick) tights a bit odd, but then I am a dinosaur.

Ameanstreakamilewide · 25/01/2023 19:08

Wnikat · 25/01/2023 16:09

Just let him? Why wouldn’t you? You can be a boy and wear dresses. Wearing a dress doesn’t make you a girl. Surely good for him to learn that ?

Because he'll look ridiculous.

Eyerollcentral · 25/01/2023 19:13

TotallyAverage · 25/01/2023 18:50

Thanks for the further replies.

I think with most societal norms, there are pretty simple, logical reasons that can be explained. We don't go to school naked because of warmth/hygiene. We don't eat lunch from the floor because it's more hygienic and less messy to use plates, etc.

It's him questioning why the uniform (poloshirt, jumper, grey skirt or trousers) is different for boys and girls. I hadn't actually thought about the toilet reason but that is a good explanation.

I've mulled everything over and I do wonder if it's just a way of him questioning this aspect of society, but from a children's perspective (ie how does this affect me, how can I test that). It's possibly a bit like him asking 'can I drive the car?' and me saying no, and that leading on to chat about being a grown up to learn to drive etc. He knew from the start the answer was no, but wanted to explore the topic.

He is also very exuberant and dramatic so absolutely would love the swishyness of a big dress etc. Not sure who he gets that from... Blush

Op I wonder if you are totally over thinking this. He knows boys typically don’t wear dresses to school and is pushing the boundary, as is appropriate for a seven year old. Doesn’t sound like he has any intention of actually doing it. He thinks he has outsmarted you with this question

Krakenes · 25/01/2023 19:13

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 25/01/2023 19:04

Why wear shorts if you want to be warm?

I never understand that, either. I also find the trend for sporty teenagers to wear what looks like shorts with (thick) tights a bit odd, but then I am a dinosaur.

I sometimes do this when running. Tops don’t seem long enough and I hate the leggings on their own around the crotch. The shorts cover my modesty!!

SallyLockheart · 25/01/2023 19:15

not read the full thread but it might be easier to say boys uniform at school, whatever he wants at home. That way, if it only a phase, it is an easy way back. It's a bit like the Cass report saying affirmation isn't a neutral action. If he wears a dress at school and then wants to go back to trousers, that a bigger deal and takes more courage to show that he has changed his mind.

Catbustotoro · 25/01/2023 19:16

Ameanstreakamilewide · 25/01/2023 18:55

Well, quite. I completely agree.

He's allowed to be told 'no'. Them's the rules.

Perhaps I'm uptight, but there's no way i'd let my son leave the house wearing a dress.
Even if it's a short lived 'thing' with him, he'll always be the boy at school who wore a dress.

Show quote history

But how is the world ever going to change if we don't let it?!
I would absolutely point out possible pitfalls to him:
*Some people think boys aren't allowed to wear dresses, and might be silly about it
*some people might be confused and think you're a girl
*We'd have to spend money on new clothes

But then I'd let him choose! If we want people to know clothes don't define gender, then we are going to have to live with boys in dresses, and girls in trousers!
One half of that is already unobjectionable, so I have a sneaking suspicion that misogyny/the patriarchy is colouring people's opinions on the other half...

Itisbetter · 25/01/2023 19:21

i have boys and girls, they all wear trousers to school. If they didn’t they absolutely wouldn’t be allowed to change in the spring term. He has uniform,this is just silly.

VioletCharlotte · 25/01/2023 19:25

I think he's pushing boundaries and testing you. I would say that while he could wear a dress to school, most boys wear trousers so he would probably feel a bit silly. Plus trousers are much warmer and better for running about. Then move the conversation on to something else 'anyway, what do you fancy for dinner?'

I feel that sometimes we can inadvertently turn these sorts of questions into a 'thing' by dwelling on them too much.