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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A woman has been found guilty of raping two women

669 replies

AngelicaSchuylerAndHerSisters · 24/01/2023 13:23

A woman has been found guilty of raping two women when she was a man. Happened in Scotland. She hasn’t been sentenced yet - but where will she serve her sentence? In the womens prison?!
This is going to mean some serious discussions and tough times for the Scottish government. But it was surely only a matter of time before something like this happened.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
happydappy2 · 25/01/2023 13:19

David Blunkett has spoken on TV saying its not fair-thank you !!

IcakedefargeIam · 25/01/2023 13:21

Do you have a link? Do you have to be Irish to sign?

MoirasSaggyBundles · 25/01/2023 13:25

@IcakedefargeIam Blunkett's comment was BBC 2's Politics Live earlier today. I did my best to transcribe the discussion (which centred around the Scottish GRC Bill and Westminster blocking it) on the thread linked below:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4728027-miriam-cates-is-on-politics-live-today-25-january?page=2&reply=123373546

MoirasSaggyBundles · 25/01/2023 13:27

@IcakedefargeIam Apologies! Realise you are referring to the petition. Look at the Sex Matters website

sex-matters.org/take-action/make-the-equality-act-clear/

IcakethereforeIam · 25/01/2023 13:28

Sorry @MoirasSaggyBundles my comments was directed to @Notaflippinclue regarding a petition. But thank you for the link, I'll have a look.

Skyellaskerry · 25/01/2023 13:32

For anyone wanting to write to their MP/MSPs, the They Work For You website makes it really easy.

Notaflippinclue · 25/01/2023 13:33

Just go to - remove Barbie Kardashian from Limerick womens prison.

HufflepuffRavenclaw · 25/01/2023 13:33

evemillbank · 25/01/2023 11:10

There was a picture of that person going into court wearing tight ( in the crotch area) leggings.. definitely isn't a woman! They had a penis.

Ah but that's where you are wrong, @evemillbank . In Sturgeon's Scotland you do not need to have messy and inconvenient surgery to be a woman. You don;t need to take oestrogen, shave your beard, or wear stereotypically female clothing. You just need to tell Scottish Power that you want the name on your leccy bill changed from Julian to Jessica and after three months - hey presto - you're a woman.

And anyone who DARES to suggest that this is a wee bit bonkers, and that phrases like "her penis" are plain wrong, is a hateful TERF and transphobic bigot.

Fair, isn't it?

I am in a constituency which has flip flopped between SNP and Lib Dems and I have always voted Lib Dem to keep the SNP out. Can't do that any longer.

Emotionalsupportviper · 25/01/2023 13:49

TheShellBeach · 25/01/2023 11:58

HE had a penis.
He says he wants surgery but I don't believe him.
He won't be able to rape any women without it, will he?

Apparently a very large proportion of these men detransition after their release from jail.

Quelle suprise

MoirasSaggyBundles · 25/01/2023 13:53

Joanna Cherry MSP on Time Radio earlier today.

SinnerBoy · 25/01/2023 13:59

Plbrookes · Today 12:44

You butted in on the exchange so do you want to be involved or not?

Well, in that case, you butted in, too. Yes, I'm engaging, but please don't ascribe the words of someone else to me, please.

Sugarfree23 · 25/01/2023 14:01

Is she Tory?

MoirasSaggyBundles · 25/01/2023 14:05

Joanna Cherry is SNP, a barrister and brilliant advocate for women and defending the gender critical position. She's had to put up with a whole load of shit from her own party.

Nat6999 · 25/01/2023 14:05

I read that (s)he had been remanded to a women's prison but would not be accommodated with the general population.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 25/01/2023 14:06

SinnerBoy
Plbrookes · Today 09:01

Your opinion doesn't matter.

Then neither does yours. FWIW, I'm not intending to draw a penis on the ballot. Also, I have neither the time, nor the inclination to try standing as an MP. It's incredibly difficult to get backing as an independent, in any case.

Ah, so you're not planning on making the tellers look at a dick pic. Good. Of course people who would object to people doing that are so prim aren't they?

////

How in the lords name did you read that from Sinners post?

You seem very invested in talking about pictures of willies ...

Sugarfree23 · 25/01/2023 14:18

@MoirasSaggyBundles thank-you.

I'm glad Someone is actually speaking up for the women in Cornton Vale.
Fingers crossed 🤞 that the tide turns on all of this nonsense.

SinnerBoy · 25/01/2023 14:22

MoirasSaggyBundles · Today 14:05

Joanna Cherry is SNP, a barrister and brilliant advocate for women and defending the gender critical position. She's had to put up with a whole load of shit from her own party.

I really admire her non nonsense attitude and sheer bloody tenacity!

SirChenjins · 25/01/2023 14:29

According to a poster on another thread, Joanna Cherry was interviewed on Radio 4 today and said that basically the GRR does not affect the Equalities Act and the UK govt should keep its nose out of Scottish politics. If that's the case then it's very disappointing - I would have expected more from her.

334bu · 25/01/2023 14:37

www.thetimes.co.uk/radio/show/20230125-19862/2023-01-25
Maya Forster being interviewed by Mariella Frostup

duc748 · 25/01/2023 14:40

Waitwhat23 · 25/01/2023 12:11

This is a great article for understanding how legislation and policies have been changed under the radar (one tactic being adding policies to more 'palatable' debates in order to put them through - self id in Ireland being an obvious example) -

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists/

Until I started to see this in action, I would have been a bit 'ooh, it's a bit too conspiracy theory' but it's not a conspiracy theory if it's actually happening.

I read the Speccie link. I think they are dead right in saying (I've often said so myself) that Joe and Joanna Public are largely unaware of what's going on here. And would certainly not support it if they knew.

Although I have to say that the Spectator complaining about dodgy lobbying groups, considered their long-held links with the like of the dubious 'think tanks' that brought us Brexit and other blessings, is a bit rich. But, like the Mail, doesn't mean they are wrong about everything.

seXX · 25/01/2023 14:54

One of my MSPs has just forwarded me this to say that it will be discussed this afternoon in parliament as Russell Findlay has raised an urgent question:

"Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party press office
Wednesday 25 January 2023
FAO: all newsdesks
Embargo: for immediate release

Fears over the refusal of the SNP to include key safeguards in their controversial GRR Bill have been vindicated by the high-profile case of a transgender rapist this week, it has been claimed.

Scottish Conservative MSP Russell Findlay – whose joint amendment preventing those accused of serious sex crimes from seeking to change gender until their case is concluded, was voted down – has had an Urgent Question on the topic selected by the Presiding Officer for this afternoon.

The rapist, who first appeared in court as Adam Graham but now goes by the name Isla Bryson, was found guilty yesterday (Tuesday) of raping two women and is in Cornton Vale women’s prison awaiting sentencing.

Russell Findlay believes it is “inappropriate, unacceptable and wrong” for Bryson to be housed in a women’s prison and is demanding the immediate publication of the Scottish Prison Service’s Gender Identity and Gender Reassignment policy review, which was promised last summer.

Scottish Conservative shadow community safety minister Russell Findlay MSP said: “The horrific rape case brings into sharp focus one of the fundamental flaws of the GRR Bill.

“It would be traumatic and demeaning for any rape victim to hear their brutal attacker referred to as ‘she’ and ‘her’ in court proceedings. Only men can be rapists.

“I put forward an amendment to the GRR Bill which would have prevented those charged with serious sexual offences from changing gender until their case has been concluded, so that exactly this scenario could be avoided in future.

“Astonishingly, SNP, Green and Lib Dem MSPs voted it down, giving the very clear signal that, in their eyes, the rights of criminals take precedence over those of their victims.

“That was unforgivable. However, now that we have a pause in the bill, because of the issuing of a Section 35 order by the UK Government, I’d urge Nicola Sturgeon to admit she has got this badly wrong and include our amendment in any redrafted version of the bill.

“The other key aspect of this appalling case is that it’s entirely inappropriate, unacceptable and wrong for this vile rapist to be housed in a female prison, which is bound to contain women who have been victims of male violence, sexual violence and abuse.

“We need the updated policy review from the Scottish Prison Service on transgender criminals – and which prisons are appropriate for them – published now. That’s why I submitted the Urgent Question, which I’m pleased the Presiding Officer has selected.

“When the Scottish Conservatives asked about this early last year, we were promised the review would be published by summer 2022. So why are we still waiting for it?”

Notes

Russell Findlay’s Urgent Question selected by the Presiding Officer, reads: To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the Scottish Prison Service’s Gender Identity and Gender Reassignment Policy Review.

The SPS have broken their promise to publish their updated transgender prisoner policy by summer 2022. The Scottish Prison Service said in response to a Scottish Conservative freedom of information request ‘the SPS Gender Identity and Gender Reassignment (2014) Policy review will be published alongside the updated policy in late Summer 2022’. (SPS FOI HQ22006, 3 May 2022, available on request).

The SNP Government confirmed that transgender prisoners are assessed for suitability on a case by case basis in women’s prisons. Shona Robison confirmed: ‘The SPS has for many years been managing transgender prisoners, some of whom are placed in the women’s estate and some in the men’s estate, according to risk’ (Official report, 21 December 2022, link)."

seXX · 25/01/2023 14:57

Question asked at 2.55pm

www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/meeting-of-the-parliament-january-25-2023

Skyellaskerry · 25/01/2023 15:06

Shelagh Fogarty talking about this on LBC now

MoirasSaggyBundles · 25/01/2023 15:08

SirChenjins · 25/01/2023 14:29

According to a poster on another thread, Joanna Cherry was interviewed on Radio 4 today and said that basically the GRR does not affect the Equalities Act and the UK govt should keep its nose out of Scottish politics. If that's the case then it's very disappointing - I would have expected more from her.

I'm not quite getting that from what I've heard her say. She says she opposed the GRR on the basis of human rights and equality law, and that it hasn't been properly evaluated for its impact on the EqA 2010 and human rights of people who are not trans.

The question of s35 being invoked by Westminster is a constitutional issue, not about the Bill per se, and as a Scottish nationalist, she is not going to support a measure that blocks Scottish autonomy. JC thinks it can be ironed out in a way that does not compromise Scottish independence, by the Scottish government itself reviewing the GRR. I've seen others say that government to government discussion should be sufficient to sort this out.

The content of the GRR as drafted and the s35 power are two different issues; however, if practically speaking, invoking section 35 is the only way to stop this Bill passing until it can be amended sufficiently to not run roughshod over the EqA, then that's the way Westminster should go, Imo. A Scottish nationalist would never agree, though, or certainly would not do so publicly.

MoirasSaggyBundles · 25/01/2023 15:11

Miriam Cates on Times Radio earlier: