A woman has been found guilty of raping two women

[AngelicaSchuylerAndHerSisters]

A woman has been found guilty of raping two women when she was a man. Happened in Scotland. She hasn’t been sentenced yet - but where will she serve her sentence? In the womens prison?!
This is going to mean some serious discussions and tough times for the Scottish government. But it was surely only a matter of time before something like this happened.

Miriam Cates MP who is quoted in the Daily Mail article is on Politics Live tomorrow, BBC2 11.15am. Will be very interesting to hear what she has to say on this and the appalling behaviour of male MPs towards her and Rosie Duffield last week. I hope every MP on TV and radio tomorrow is asked about this case.

If they allow him into Cornton Vale, it makes you question what is the point in having separate prisons.

It makes you wonder would women be safer in with hardened gangsters who actually have some respect.

I too hope that this will happen. And also perhaps a question to NS at the next Scottish first minister questions, not that it will change anything but the more sunlight the better.

I too would love to see the 'risk assessment'.

For a start it'll be the female one which does nothing to predict risk to others from a serial male predator.

Then I'd like to know what proportion is on the risk to the predator compared to the risk the predator poses to the predator's favourite victim group.

Then I'd like to know the additional costs involved in meeting the risk assessment. Will this prisoner have to be staffed at all times to reach acceptable levels of safety for the women in the wing? By how many staff? What is the difference in the cost that will be focused on nurturing the inner self of this male prisoner compared to the cost had that prisoner been on a male prison wing? Where does that money come from? Does the female estate now have to short change women in order meet the very special needs of males?

And when as is fairly inevitable, this predator predates, what will the consequences be and what will the 'justice' be for the woman left damaged in the predator's wake? Should of course she be in any state afterwards to be aware of 'justice'.

I have complained to the BBC about this person being described as a woman in their lunchtime broadcast today. Will see what nonsense they reply with.

I would also love to be in the break room of the police who worked this case, investigated it, got it to court with the hours and hours of work involved, fought it through court to a conviction - and then got to see the rapist they got off the street locked up with a whole new buffet of victims waiting to happen.

I wonder if, when knowing a male perpetrator is likely to be dumped on a vulnerable female prison population, ethical police will start to wonder just how hard they should work a case and seek a conviction.

Yeah "Risk Assessment" my fat arse.

What's it based on, the male rapist saying "I'm a woman so I'm not a risk honest guv"?

To be fair, Reporting Scotland this evening did devote more time to the story and made it clear that perpetrator was currently on remand in a Women's prison.

Still nowhere near the amount of time given to a Premier Division fitba team having their Arse handed to them by part-timers.

Thank you - I'll try to catch this.

Isn't Katie Dolatowski still in Cornton Vale after being moved from Polmont for beating up a fellow prisoner? While obviously neither of them should be in a women's prison, I will have a quiet chuckle if they end up being cell mates.

Not crazy about the title of this thread.

@abittoofar
"There are several types of rape. Rape is a violent crime involving sexual acts forced on one person by another. Rape is technically defined as forced penetration (with any body part or object)
I'm a woman I could still rape another woman with a dildo or any other object. Or any man if I really wanted to."
You are wrong. Rape can only be committed with a PENIS

TRAs are always banging on about how vulnerable TW are in the male estate. Well, one obvious way of protecting themselves is not to commit any crimes, but if they do, and are caught and incarcerated - just how much more vulnerable are they?

Prisons are, by definition, violent places. A lot of men get beaten up, raped etc. I would like to see statistics which not only show the number of assaults, but how many of these are on TW, how many on gay men, how many on straight men, on different ethnic groups etc. I strongly suspect that (proportionately) TW are at no greater risk than many other men. (I asked my MP for this information after I wrote to her about the danger posed by TW to women in the female estate, and she came back with the usual "most vulnerable etc etc etc" sh*te - she didn't respond to my request.)

I'd like to see these figures compared with the ones showing how many women have been assaulted by TW in prisons. I'm not a statistician - I couldn't analyse the figures (if they are even available - does anyone know how many biological men are held in women's prisons?) - but someone out there will be able to.

However whatever their vulnerability, it isn't the task of women to act as a shield for men. It is male violence in male prisons that should be addressed - and not by shifting the violence onto women.

Just the same in the Grauniad. But an AP (Associated Press) report. I look forward to what else the Guardian has to say about it. But I won’t hold my breath.

Sometimes the staff in prisons get overlooked in these discussions. A female friend of mine volunteered in a male prison, but after a seriously nasty incident with a male sex offender she now volunteers in the female estate, where the prisoners can be challenging but are a world away from the majority of male inmates. Nobody working or volunteering in a women's prison has signed up to deal with male offenders. The risk assessment would be very illuminating, but a risk assessment could never encapsulate how the presence of just one man, especially if that man is a known sex offender, can change the entire atmosphere of a place for women.

You are wrong. Rape can only be committed with a PENIS

THIS ⬆.

A sexual assault can be committed with almost any object - but RAPE requires the perpetrator to have a PENIS.

The logic is absurd - it's dangerous for males in male prisons, so let's put males in female prisons! Problem solved! 🙄

One thing I find interesting about men who identify as women in prison is that so many of them only do it after they have been incarcerated. One would think that if being trans in prison was so terrible then far fewer men would think the perfect time to come out was when they were banged up. I have seen reports of trans prisoners receiving extra privileges in prison and also sometimes having a special status amongst prisoners. Of course, many of these prisoners are sex offenders and murderers and so aren't in with the general prison population anyway. IIRC, there's a specialist prison section for sex offenders on the Isle of Wight that has a significant number of trans identifying inmates.

Indeed. There was an ex-prison governor speaking at a conference on You Tube taking about the danger to both staff and prisoners posed by males in the female estate.

And the sheer bloody-mindedness of men who switch genders and go backwards and forwards between prisons - just because they can. It's a game to many of them.

I'll see if I can find it.

I'm pretty sure it was this lady Rhona Hotchkiss, but I can't yet fond the section I was looking for. However here is her comment on the GRA.

Just waiting now for the legal definition of rape to be altered…
For those not sure about voting, we must. View it as tactical but it’s more important than ever to get your X in the box when the time comes. You have to decide what is the most important thing and go from.

I didn't realise the law was different in England I just read this

I agree with this in principle but in reality who CAN we vote for? Especially those of us in Scotland. The only option seems to be Conservative but that's not palatable either.

I am going to send the below message to my MP, who completely dismissed my concerns about the GRR, when I emailed her. Not in Scotland, but I'm dammed if I'm going to let her dismiss women's safety like that.

**www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64388669

This biological man has been found guilty of raping two women.

(Insert full length, pink leggings photo)

Please note the uncropped photograph of this person, which clearly shows their male genitalia. This was used to rape. Our laws still state in the UK that rape is unconsented penetration with a penis, therefore a rapist is a male with a penis.

This rapist is now held in the Scottish female prison.

Do you believe that this is right?

Please note that this individual made the choice to "transition" after their initial court appearance.

Why would this rapist prefer to be in the female estate?
Because of their "gender"? (As such, gender is undefined in law)
Because they will have an easier time than in the male estate?
Because there is free access to vulnerable women?

What about how the women in that prison feel? They cannot escape from a violent, rapist. Do they have the right to request to move to a different prison, as their prison is no longer single sex?

It might be the only way just to get the changes done.
I was a lifelong Libdem voter till all this started. Not any more.
Kate Forbes is my MSP and I actually don’t know how she sleeps at night. I know she’s on maternity leave at the moment but she’s still an SNP member.