Page 9 | Non-binary biological boy at DD's girls' school: toilets

ItsHitTheFanNow · 2023-01-18T17:08:31+00:00

Hello, a non-binary biological boy has started at DD's girls' school. Are there any regulations around what toilets they need to use? I just wondered what the actual legal position on this is. Thank you.

lifeturnsonadime · 19/01/2023 17:19

findmybalance · 19/01/2023 16:45

You know attention seeking isnt even a term we use anymore in child services/education/mental health?

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I'd also like to know who the 'we' is.

Perhaps CAMHS didn't get the memo as I've certainly come across them using it, not with trans kids but with other mental health issues.

They also like to parent blame for many things.

Perhaps because trans is a sacred caste professionals are too scared to question for fear of being accused of being a non- believer or conversion practices.

findmybalance · 19/01/2023 17:29

Boomboom22 · 19/01/2023 17:03

Is find claiming to work in child mental health services and pushing this dangerous agenda? If so I'd urge her to look to her codes of practice and ensure she keeps up to date. Allowing children control over adults in this way is not actually helpful to them. Hence the term grounded adults.

Any ideology that leads people to feel so unhappy with their body dues to stereotypes about personality that they are encouraged to take non medically necessary hormones that stunt development and lower life expectancy should examine their pra time.

I dont know, why dont you ask find

No, I dont work in children's mental health services however I do know that in updated school training we dont use the word attention seeking.

No idea what my dangerous agenda is given that I said on page 2 that I dont agree this child should go to the school.

Al I actually said was I didnt think attention seeking and insulting parenting was a good thing to do. Bloody hell how outrageous of me.

findmybalance · 19/01/2023 17:30

lifeturnsonadime · 19/01/2023 17:19

I'd also like to know who the 'we' is.

Perhaps CAMHS didn't get the memo as I've certainly come across them using it, not with trans kids but with other mental health issues.

They also like to parent blame for many things.

Perhaps because trans is a sacred caste professionals are too scared to question for fear of being accused of being a non- believer or conversion practices.

Show quote history

Schools, for whoever else asked., as that's what I understand this thread was about.
Peoples grievances with camhs (funnily enough I'd agree with you on that one as awful as I am) arent relevant here

The question was whether this child should go to this school. No is the clear answer. I just disnr like the way a child and parent was referred to about 10 pagea ago- any chancei can have a reprieve now for this?

lifeturnsonadime · 19/01/2023 17:35

Schools, for whoever else asked.

But earlier you said You know attention seeking isnt even a term we use anymore in child services/education/mental health

So you were only actually talking about schools.

Again strange because I know of children in school who struggle with their mental health (non trans related) and struggle to attend. I advocate for families with such difficulties and they are often told that their children are acting up or attention seeking when they refuse to go in. The parents are also often blamed.

So are you just talking about children who identify as trans in schools rather than what you actually said in your earlier post?

findmybalance · 19/01/2023 17:40

lifeturnsonadime · 19/01/2023 17:35

Schools, for whoever else asked.

But earlier you said You know attention seeking isnt even a term we use anymore in child services/education/mental health

So you were only actually talking about schools.

Again strange because I know of children in school who struggle with their mental health (non trans related) and struggle to attend. I advocate for families with such difficulties and they are often told that their children are acting up or attention seeking when they refuse to go in. The parents are also often blamed.

So are you just talking about children who identify as trans in schools rather than what you actually said in your earlier post?

No.

The updated training was clear attention seeking has changed to attention needing for all.

Schools, education and mental health services are linked so I genuinely wasnt being flippant there, I had assumed those services would sing to the same hymn sheet but subsequent posts from PP tell me otherwise.

Fwiw, I would object to ANY child being called attention seeking and digs about useless parenting for amy kind of issue related to children. This isnt a trans agenda.

HootyMcboob76 · 19/01/2023 17:45

"They're not a boy. They're non binary."

WHAT SEX IS THE CHILD?

If they have a penis, they don't belong in a school for females.

Are you denying sex is real?

lifeturnsonadime · 19/01/2023 17:46

I dunno the difference between attention needing and attention seeking is a bit like splitting hairs.

Behaviour is a form of communication, a child who acts up is trying to tell someone something. To ignore attention seeking or needing if you prefer is to do the child an injustice.

findmybalance · 19/01/2023 17:47

HootyMcboob76 · 19/01/2023 17:45

"They're not a boy. They're non binary."

WHAT SEX IS THE CHILD?

If they have a penis, they don't belong in a school for females.

Are you denying sex is real?

Perhaps you could include the bit of my post where I conceded the child should still not go to this school instead of derailing.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/01/2023 17:48

findmybalance · 19/01/2023 17:02

@MrsOvertonsWindow it's also not a bout stopping people from commenting. I do't have massively dissimilar views when it comes to schools. However if I find language vicious (which is what I said, not unkind) about parents or children, I have the right to say that. Again the fact you don't think so is concerning.

If you bother to read my (two) posts, you will see I didn't say that you shouldn't comment. I did point out that when you say:
"I was however referring to the vicious manner grown adults are talking about a child" it is evidently a weak attempt to stop people from commenting.
It's a technique that transactivists use all the time and why vulnerable children are such a useful tool for them.

My earlier post highlighted pointed out how queer theory advocates (and transactivists) are using children and schools:
"That's why schools have been so relentlessly targeted as children are impressionable and will believe fantasies if there are no grounded adults present to highlight the problems. Parents (and other sceptical adults) are intimidated from challenging because as shown here, it's then framed as an attack on a confused child. are using children and schools in order to present trans children"

When you conclude by alleging "the fact you don't think so is concerning". in relation to your comments about vicious language, you really are flailing in the wind. I've made no comment about other people's use of language. Just highlighted how queer theorists and transactivists use children to push their agenda and how that's been evidenced here.

findmybalance · 19/01/2023 17:49

lifeturnsonadime · 19/01/2023 17:46

I dunno the difference between attention needing and attention seeking is a bit like splitting hairs.

Behaviour is a form of communication, a child who acts up is trying to tell someone something. To ignore attention seeking or needing if you prefer is to do the child an injustice.

No, I'm not ignoring it. I'm the one accepting they need listened to. I appreciate your attempts to catch me out here but this is the weakest.

Day in day out we see threads dismissing trans as a concept, calling it a delusion,bad parenting, must be autism, must be another neuro diversity, must be mental health, maybe its social media or the internet or their age or confusion or their peers or idiots online manipulating them.

Calling it attention seeking is the opposite of listening. THAT is ignoring.

I'm the one listening. Referring to them as non binary because that's how they identify whether I think they should go to the school is a different argument all together .

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/01/2023 17:51

I dunno the difference between attention needing and attention seeking is a bit like splitting hairs.

It really is.

HootyMcboob76 · 19/01/2023 17:52

findmybalance · 19/01/2023 17:47

Perhaps you could include the bit of my post where I conceded the child should still not go to this school instead of derailing.

Show quote history

It's not derailing.
It's fundamental to the narrative.
You said "not a boy.....non binary"

Since small male children are called "boys", is this small male child a "boy" or not? If they have a penis, they are MALE.

Do you believe that because someone calls themselves "non binary" it means that they are no longer a "boy" (small male human)? What sex are they then?

What is your definition of "boy" then?

It's very much pertinent.

Being "non binary" does not mean your sex ceases to exist.
If this person is male, he is a boy.

Please explain how this person is NOT a boy? I'm genuinely interested in your answer, if you have one.

findmybalance · 19/01/2023 17:53

MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/01/2023 17:48

If you bother to read my (two) posts, you will see I didn't say that you shouldn't comment. I did point out that when you say:
"I was however referring to the vicious manner grown adults are talking about a child" it is evidently a weak attempt to stop people from commenting.
It's a technique that transactivists use all the time and why vulnerable children are such a useful tool for them.

My earlier post highlighted pointed out how queer theory advocates (and transactivists) are using children and schools:
"That's why schools have been so relentlessly targeted as children are impressionable and will believe fantasies if there are no grounded adults present to highlight the problems. Parents (and other sceptical adults) are intimidated from challenging because as shown here, it's then framed as an attack on a confused child. are using children and schools in order to present trans children"

When you conclude by alleging "the fact you don't think so is concerning". in relation to your comments about vicious language, you really are flailing in the wind. I've made no comment about other people's use of language. Just highlighted how queer theorists and transactivists use children to push their agenda and how that's been evidenced here.

Show quote history

Unsure tbe point of you copying and pasting. Got you the first time, just disnt agree.

You have made comment about others language. You are claiming that me addressing it is some how similar to tbe manipulation of vulnerable children instead of accepting that I have the right tl find certain language wrong.

I'm not the one flailing in the wind. You are so determined to prove to me that I shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on others language that you are completely off topic. That is what is worrying. Why on earth is me saying that I find a certain phrase vicious worthy of this much airtime? It isnt.

And you can guarantee it wouldnt happen if I was on the 'other's side of the debate. Which is nonsense because I have tbe same views as you re tbe school. I just addressed a particular tone in a PP which ultimately was nobody elses business .

Can we move on or do we need to continue to hammer the same point?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/01/2023 17:53

MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/01/2023 16:32

This threads exemplifies why queer theorists are so desperate to involve children in sex / identity change. Because anyone who dares to challenge what's happening is being "unkind to children" or criticising parents. It's using children - especially other people's children when they should be allowed to grow and develop in peace in safety from queer theorists selling them the lie that sex is not binary. Using children in this way allows people to frame those challenging this nonsense as "vicious" and uncaring.

That's why schools have been so relentlessly targeted as children are impressionable and will believe fantasies if there are no grounded adults present to highlight the problems. Parents (and other sceptical adults) are intimidated from challenging because as shown here, it's then framed as an attack on a confused child.

Yes, exactly.

findmybalance · 19/01/2023 17:53

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/01/2023 17:51

I dunno the difference between attention needing and attention seeking is a bit like splitting hairs.

It really is.

Perhaps you could express that to the people who implemented the changes at the start of term instead of me.

findmybalance · 19/01/2023 17:54

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/01/2023 17:53

Yes, exactly.

Show quote history

Do you intend to quote all posts directed at disagreeing with me and cheer them on or just some?

findmybalance · 19/01/2023 17:55

HootyMcboob76 · 19/01/2023 17:52

It's not derailing.
It's fundamental to the narrative.
You said "not a boy.....non binary"

Since small male children are called "boys", is this small male child a "boy" or not? If they have a penis, they are MALE.

Do you believe that because someone calls themselves "non binary" it means that they are no longer a "boy" (small male human)? What sex are they then?

What is your definition of "boy" then?

It's very much pertinent.

Being "non binary" does not mean your sex ceases to exist.
If this person is male, he is a boy.

Please explain how this person is NOT a boy? I'm genuinely interested in your answer, if you have one.

Show quote history

I said they identify non binary. They do. I respect their right to do that. Thats all there is to it.

Doeant mean I agree they should go to the school.

People can disagree as much as they like as theyve lost sight that people have different opinions, but it is really as simple as that.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/01/2023 17:56

Do you intend to quote all posts directed at disagreeing with me and cheer them on or just some?

Do you think everything is always about you?

lifeturnsonadime · 19/01/2023 17:57

No, I'm not ignoring it. I'm the one accepting they need listened to. I appreciate your attempts to catch me out here but this is the weakest.

I'm glad you are listening to the children. I hope you are considering fully the range of reasons they may behave in a particular way.

I think that terms are important. When you said that attention seeking isn't a thing to try to say that a child who identifies as non - binary could not possibly be attention seeking then it is important to be clear that from a mental health, education and child services point of view this isn't accurate. The term used may now be attention needing but the meaning is the same.

You have accused me of personal attack on another thread.

This is not a personal attack. `it is trying to avoid misinformation.

HootyMcboob76 · 19/01/2023 17:57

"I said they identify non binary. They do. I respect their right to do that. Thats all there is to it."

Nope.
You said the child "isn't a boy", not that they were just "non-binary".

It's that kind of narrative that gets children to believe that their sex can be changed.
It's that kind of narrative that has got us in this shit show.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/01/2023 17:57

findmybalance · 19/01/2023 17:53

Unsure tbe point of you copying and pasting. Got you the first time, just disnt agree.

You have made comment about others language. You are claiming that me addressing it is some how similar to tbe manipulation of vulnerable children instead of accepting that I have the right tl find certain language wrong.

I'm not the one flailing in the wind. You are so determined to prove to me that I shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on others language that you are completely off topic. That is what is worrying. Why on earth is me saying that I find a certain phrase vicious worthy of this much airtime? It isnt.

And you can guarantee it wouldnt happen if I was on the 'other's side of the debate. Which is nonsense because I have tbe same views as you re tbe school. I just addressed a particular tone in a PP which ultimately was nobody elses business .

Can we move on or do we need to continue to hammer the same point?

Show quote history

I think my 3 posts (now 4) are relevant to the discussion about children and schools. Embarrassing for some to contemplate certainly.
Happy to move on as I've made my point and will leave it to others to decide who's derailing and who's flailing 😏
Go well.

findmybalance · 19/01/2023 17:58

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/01/2023 17:56

Do you intend to quote all posts directed at disagreeing with me and cheer them on or just some?

Do you think everything is always about you?

Yeah, that's what it is. nothing to do with the fact that that is clearly the pattern.

findmybalance · 19/01/2023 17:59

MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/01/2023 17:57

I think my 3 posts (now 4) are relevant to the discussion about children and schools. Embarrassing for some to contemplate certainly.
Happy to move on as I've made my point and will leave it to others to decide who's derailing and who's flailing 😏
Go well.

Show quote history

That will be a hard one to pick on this forum. 🙄

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/01/2023 17:59

Honest question what is a non-binary biological boy?

A male child with a special gender identity that doesn't really mean anything.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/01/2023 18:01

Happy to move on as I've made my point and will leave it to others to decide who's derailing and who's flailing

I'm sure they will.