Non-binary biological boy at DD's girls' school: toilets

[ItsHitTheFanNow]

Hello, a non-binary biological boy has started at DD's girls' school.

Are there any regulations around what toilets they need to use? I just wondered what the actual legal position on this is. Thank you.

I have recently been thinking about this.

DD is at a GDST school and there is a child in her year who identifies as male. The child is biologically female - their sex is female.

Of course this means they are able to be at the GDST school. I don't have an issue with that as such.

The school are treating them as male.

The year are now due to go on a school trip and the child is sharing a room with my DD. I know in reality that this poses no threat, but I can't help but feel that this isn't appropriate.

I don't want to be an arse about it but is it appropriate? I'm honestly not sure...

What’s the admissions process that justifies depriving a girl of a girls’ school place by giving it to someone who is by their own admission not a girl, and by any logical measure a boy?
Single sex education is especially valuable to girls- multiple studies show this.
This is pure discrimination against girls. Surely a legal challenge would win here? And on a pastoral level, it’s hugely gaslighting all the girls at the school, which is totally unacceptable.
And for the male child, what immense pressure on him to conform to an adult political agenda, what happens to him educationally and socially if and when he desists from identifying with their current NB ‘identity’, but finds himself committed to remaining in a girls school? Detransition is common.
Whatever way you look at this it’s a completely wrong decision by the admissions team.

Are you absolutely sure this isn’t a girl who identifies as non binary ? I ask because a similar thing happened at my school. I work at a girls school and pupils have to be female by birth to go there

Of course it’s appropriate. Two people of the same sex will be sharing accommodation.

There is no other way to be female.

If it really is a male then it's no longer a girls school and would it not be some kind of false advertising to keep saying that they are?

@Horizons83
In the wider context isn't this just the point though? This person is being treated as male. Therefore shouldn't be sharing a room with teenage girls.
I'm not saying it's the same as admitting a biological boy but to me it feels like a gateway to the next level. What if (hypothetically) this person had had the surgery and was taking testosterone?
I'm not trying to be sensationalist, I just want to preserve single sex space in the wider context.

The transboy room sharing with a girl. Of course it's fine. I suppose if the girl has been so gaslighted by school into thinking he is a boy that she's not comfortable about it then you could bring it up with the school. I find it rather an amusing admission that they do know the child's sex after all but yes, no problem with my kids sharing with any identity as long as they're the right sex.

OP I think you need to raise the question, in purely abstract terms and not referring to a particular child, with the head.

I do wonder if the particular child may have been identifying as a boy since a very young age and now goes as NB because they realised that female puberty is approaching and they're not going to pass as a boy much longer.

If they're really male the parents are being really cruel. Cute little year 7 looks nice and gender neutral but give it a few years and "they" are going to stick out like a sore thumb.

Of course it's appropriate don't be such an idiot. Child is female. Your child is female. If other child said they identified as a dinosaur would you be nervous in case your child was eaten? FFS

Yes preserving single sex space. You do understand that a girl identifying as a boy - ie a trans boy, is female yes? You know how biology works yes? Child can be treated as a boy, but NOT as a male. Because they're not.

I do understand your theoretical point, but as they are a child they won’t be on testosterone or have had surgery (other than perhaps breast removal) so I don’t think your hypotheticals are relevant here.

I think the school are doing the appropriate thing, better that than putting that student in with a boy or letting a trans girl share with a girl (appreciate at your DD’s school not going to happen!)

I think the school have it right. Let the student present however they wish and be supportive, but still recognise biological reality.

Tbh-it sounds here like the parents of this child and this child liked the school having attended through prep and decided they’d like him to stay-so are using the non-binary stick to be able to stay on.

id be going to governors and asking where the stakeholder consultation has been around admitting non-biological females.

Then if a female person has taken testosterone and had a penis implant, they might realise that some women will be distressed or uncomfortable with their appearance because they present as male.

It is not likely that this will happen at a UK school. I have not heard of teens getting extreme cosmetic penis implants, but that doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened.

If a parent knows upfront who is sharing single sex spaces with their daughters, they can make appropriate decisions. For instance, those two females may have been friends for a very long time and the parents have no concerns.

@titchy
Sorry, for a minute there I thought this was a discussion space.
🙄

It is.
Hence why I'm suggesting your comment is ridiculous.

Yes sounds like this.

Think of the school "treating them as male" as making provisions for a child's adherence to religious practice whilst at school.

The school aren't really treating them as male, otherwise they'd not be at the school. For the sake of the transboy, it is sensible that they're allowed to stay.

Hopefully the other girls aren't forced to participate in the gender religion too. And hopefully other religions and atheism receive the same level of deference. It is this aspect that I'd want to keep an eye on. I'd be furious if, for example, woman/ girl gender identities were ascribed to everyone else just to accommodate a transboy.

Well, it doesnt go without saying, and I'm not pretending.

The whole world doesnt think like you, speaking of people who think the world revolves around them and what they think.

I assume from your posts on here that you believe (1) that 'non-binary' is meaningful and (2) that children can be transsexual.

Can you explain (for those of us who don't share your beliefs) what you understand by the term 'non-binary' and what convinced you that children understand enough about sexual matters to declare that they are transsexual?

What if (hypothetically) this person had had the surgery and was taking testosterone?

It doesn’t work as a hypothetical because, thankfully, even Thailand no longer allows ‘bottom’ surgery (to use that twee euphemism) on under 18s.

Even if a trans ‘boy’ could get the surgery earlier, you’d be talking about a minimum of a 16 year old (bad enough, I know). And even ‘roided up, the statistical likelihood of a trans ‘boy’ attacking your DD would be vanishingly small.

There’s no evidence (that I’ve seen anyone present to date) that suggests girls or women taking testosterone start displaying male-typical sexual offending behaviour.

As a subsequent poster said, children can't change sex, even in an administrative/legal sense. Although adults are allowed to falsify their birth certificates to show the wrong sex, kids can't. So yes, this child's sex is male, whatever their gender identity, (and whatever gender identity means).

Of course, even if they were an adult, they couldn't get a falsified birth certificate showing NB so their legal sex would still be Male (unless they chose to change it to Female).

Not saying otherwise. My point is that my school will not entertain any other perspective. However, there was gossip amongst pupils that a trans pupil was starting who turned out to be a girl

Well, it doesnt go without saying

yes, I gathered. I said it should go without saying.

The whole world doesnt think like you

So you disagree that “it is the duty of parents to teach their children that the world doesn't revolve around them and that other people have rights too?” What a thing to admit!

I think the fact it is private may mean that there is a precedent for a small number of children of the opposite sex. Eg it's often a perk of teachers in private schools that their child attends the school either free or heavily discounted.

Eg there have been a handful of girls who have attended Eton.

How much notice do you have to give to withdraw your DD OP? A few threatened withdrawals might make them think again.

In the wider context isn't this just the point though? This person is being treated as male. Therefore shouldn't be sharing a room with teenage girls.
I'm not saying it's the same as admitting a biological boy but to me it feels like a gateway to the next level. What if (hypothetically) this person had had the surgery and was taking testosterone?
I'm not trying to be sensationalist, I just want to preserve single sex space in the wider context.

It's a single-sex space but I'd still be reticent because it blurs boundaries and I'd want my child well away from all the drama-rama and especially if the child was acting male/performing male stereotypes.

Honest question what is a non-binary biological boy?