Non-binary biological boy at DD's girls' school: toilets

[ItsHitTheFanNow]

Hello, a non-binary biological boy has started at DD's girls' school.

Are there any regulations around what toilets they need to use? I just wondered what the actual legal position on this is. Thank you.

Wow. Could this become a way that sharp elbowed parents get their child into a top school? They could have their child take the exam for the boys school and girls school to hedge their bets.

To you.

For fear of being accused of another personal attack THIS is why i was asking questions earlier.

What does gender identity mean?

What does non binary mean?

I know I am being a pedant but how can a child be neither a boy or a girl? How do they know they are?

When they don't have a binary gender how do they know what services to use (if they are single sex based?)

Do they just get to choose what they fancy when they want to?

To you

Objectively. It's just an identity label, like being a goth. Everyone is non binary because humans aren't "binary".

Good point. Similar to the mediocre sports sportsmen - cyclists, swimmers, weight lifters etc who fail as sportsmen and claim to be women in order to succeed at the expense of women.

I dont think you're being a pendant but I think the vast majority of posters on these boards, I apologise if you are a rarity, know fine well what these people believe. They ask so they can discredit it and argue each point. Its tiresome.

Non binary dont identify with either sex. They're non binary. That's it. How they know that?pass. You do get people that go by he, she, and they, but non binary is they.

Now this is not my personal belief on it so theres no point in anyone arguing with me. But that's the answer.

Re the toilets that's a whole other issue and completely individual and environmental

I meant the meaningless part.

The stupid thing is if we discussed views o trans issues I'd probably agree with you on many.

I just dont like some of the language used around dismissing it, it's as simple as that.

Do you think everything is always about you?

People don’t generally outgrow that developmental stage unless their parents help them to.

And they are deeply affronted and appalled and horrified by the notion that this should be expected of parents…

By inference, yes.

Non binary dont identify with either sex. They're non binary. That's it. How they know that?pass. You do get people that go by he, she, and they, but non binary is they.

OK thanks so because they don't identify as either sex do they think they don't have a sex?

Do they just get to choose what they fancy when they want to?
This I suspect as they're children subject to influences from often dubious sources.
I'm looking forward to the DfE producing the guidance for schools they've been promising for the last 5? years. I suspect they've realised that none of this makes sense when applied to children, education and the law and are panicking (maybe flailing even) as they try to square this circle without admitting any culpability for who they've encouraged to access children & schools.

Now you have crossed a line. Insulting nameless parents was crass but you do you

You do not insult mine. Fuck that.

They do, but they dont identify with it.

Who are these dubious sources? And what evidence is there to suggest that they are all responsible for this?

Why are we removing children's ability to think for themselves? Purely because you dont agree with their choices?

Ok so to go with your belief on this.

Do you think that society should be set up to put gender ahead of sex in all situations so that this male child who identifies as non binary should be able to pick the school he wishes to go to (in the case of single sex schools)?

If you don't think that (and I might be wrong but I think you have said you don't think that or you are not sure), do you think that it is fair on the child to go along with their gender identity or do you think it is better to say you can call your self non-binary but your sex is real and matters?

I think this is what confuses me about your position. Either you believe gender is the important factor or you don't. I can't see how it can be both ways. Especially where children are concerned as these are difficult concepts even for adults. Surely it's playing with a child's head to say yes you are non-binary but sex is relevant?

Thats the thing though. I dont have all the answers. I can answer each scenario, in that I dont think they should go to tne school but for the purposes of debate I will respect their identity, but I'm just a human being. Fair play to those on here claiming they have all the answers but they dont. None of us do. All we can do is react to what we see.

I believe they absolutely feel the way they do for whatever reason and thats why I object to comments about delusion. I think it misto be bloodu hard for any parent hence why I dont like the parent slating.

As per your recent post I dont have the answers. I just dont. But neither do tbe other side of tbe debate. The 'they're a boy so that's it's sentiment.

The answer? Somewhere in the middle. But until both sides can concede ground I dont see it improving and children cop for it.

I genuinely have to go and write a presentation I should have written hours ago peace to all (most) 😎

Dubious sources:
Mermaids (paedophile / porn scandal)
Stonewall (employed Aimee Challenor despite their involvement with the paedophile case and safeguarding failures with Lib Dems)
Educate & Celebrate (flasher claimed to represent them in talking to primary children)
Proud Trust (Dice game)
Even the NSPCC (who I do generally rate) defended the rubber man / toilet wanker when he was outed.

"The 'they're a boy so that's it's sentiment."

Well, in terms of entry to single sex schools, it very much IS "it".

How can anyone not "identify with" their sex?

Your sex isn't a choice you can make. It's set at conception.

You can feel you don't want to confirm to your society's expectations of people of your sex, but you remain the sex you were at conception.

I just dont like some of the language used around dismissing it, it's as simple as that.

I'm not really all that interested in what you think about it, it's as simple as that. I find you extremely self-important and with little of any value to contribute to the thread topic, so you derail it to suit yourself.

Thanks for answering.

It is clear that the situation is far from clear.

Goodness knows why governments. are trying to bring in legislation when no one really knows the answers to questions like this.

My take on it is that children who believe that they are non binary are not helped if they are told that gender identity is more important than sex. They will either grow up feeling entitled to do as they wish as either sex to their benefit or they will grow up feeling that they don't belong as sex really is binary and it does exist.

I appreciate you disagree but I think that not understanding the reasons that children might reject the binary does no child any favours. Not the ones with the non binary identities nor people like the OPs daughter who should be at a single sex school and finds that a male is there.

Good luck with your dissertation.

Back at you. But thanks for the assessment, oh leader of the board.

Something to think about. Thanks!

As a pshe teacher please listen to what is being said this is like PIE or the German kindergartens again going too far with Foucoult.

Teachers are complicit when they vociferously defend self id which you do with your be ki, tgey know if they are non binary.
Actually no one knows what anyone else feels and so noone knows what it us like to be a woman or a man other than themselves.

It's revolting to ask women to 'compromise' by giving up the language to describe their experience oe their protected spaces. Their is a vast amount of evidence of sex based oppression. Segregating spaces based on niche identities abandons women who need protections because of their body. I have no time for the aggression of such suggestions.