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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Non-binary biological boy at DD's girls' school: toilets

276 replies

ItsHitTheFanNow · 18/01/2023 17:08

Hello, a non-binary biological boy has started at DD's girls' school.

Are there any regulations around what toilets they need to use? I just wondered what the actual legal position on this is. Thank you.

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Phos · 18/01/2023 17:37

Schools Premises Regulations (2012) ISS Regulation 23A section B states:
‘Separate toilet facilities for boys and girls aged 8 years or over are to be provided except where the toilet facility is provided in a room that can be secured from the inside and that is intended for use by one pupil at a time’.

HOWEVER, the Equality and Human Rights Commission publication Technical Guidance for Schools in England, states that it may be discriminatory to insist a transgender young person use the facilities of their birth sex.

I'm not sure what the law is around admitting a biological boy to a girls school, or if there even is anything in law yet. Have you looked at the school's admissions policy?

ItsHitTheFanNow · 18/01/2023 17:40

RoseslnTheHospital · 18/01/2023 17:34

Thank you but I can't find specific guidance around toilets on there.

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Xiaoxiong · 18/01/2023 17:42

Yet another situation caused by the wilful confusion between sex and gender.

This child assets their gender is non-binary (setting aside the meaning of this) But their sex is male and always will be.

The school, the toilets, every safeguarding process and risk assessment is premised on the students being of a single female sex, not single gender.

This child should not be at the school at all unless the decision has been made for the school to no longer be a single sex educational setting.

arethereanyleftatall · 18/01/2023 17:43

I would go utterly ape . If I paid for my girls to attend a girls private school , it would be because I wanted - a girls primary school. If I wanted co ed I would have chosen that. I hope many many of the pupils either complain en masse, or leave.

Clymene · 18/01/2023 17:43

ItsHitTheFanNow · 18/01/2023 17:08

Hello, a non-binary biological boy has started at DD's girls' school.

Are there any regulations around what toilets they need to use? I just wondered what the actual legal position on this is. Thank you.

Well if it's a girls school, there won't be boys' toilets I'm guessing? They shouldn't be using the girls one or indeed changing with the girls.

Girls schools are for girls, not boys.

ItsHitTheFanNow · 18/01/2023 17:43

Phos · 18/01/2023 17:37

Schools Premises Regulations (2012) ISS Regulation 23A section B states:
‘Separate toilet facilities for boys and girls aged 8 years or over are to be provided except where the toilet facility is provided in a room that can be secured from the inside and that is intended for use by one pupil at a time’.

HOWEVER, the Equality and Human Rights Commission publication Technical Guidance for Schools in England, states that it may be discriminatory to insist a transgender young person use the facilities of their birth sex.

I'm not sure what the law is around admitting a biological boy to a girls school, or if there even is anything in law yet. Have you looked at the school's admissions policy?

Thank you. Do you know if the toilet facility has to include a sink? Because these are external to the cubicles.

DD says the pupil is non-binary, not trans.

The link given earlier states:

"2.35 Single-sex schools are allowed to admit pupils of only one sex without this being unlawful sex discrimination. In this context, a single-sex school includes those schools that admit pupils of the opposite sex, but the admission of whom to the school is exceptional or whose numbers are comparatively small and their admission is confined to particular courses or classes."

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arethereanyleftatall · 18/01/2023 17:46

If they start building new toilets etc to accommodate boys who've never been told no, will the cost be passed on to all parents?

PaterPower · 18/01/2023 17:49

and their admission is confined to particular courses or classes.”

Well there you are. I assume the boy’s class choice isn’t going to be restricted, so they are no longer a single sex school. Although IANAL, it seems pretty clear wording.

Clymene · 18/01/2023 17:52

The school is no longer single sex as it's admitted a boy.

Honestly I'd go to the press

Abccde · 18/01/2023 17:55

Are you sure it's a boy? And not a non binary girl?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 18/01/2023 17:55

The Girls Day Schools Trust state clearly that:
The GDST is committed to single-sex education for girls. Admissions to GDST schools are based on the prospective student’s legal sex as recorded on their birth certificate.

Evidently this school has changed their admissions policy and is now admitting boys (who think that they are not a boy or girl?) And presumably this child will be sharing showers, changing rooms, dormitories etc with girls?

ItsHitTheFanNow · 18/01/2023 17:56

Abccde · 18/01/2023 17:55

Are you sure it's a boy? And not a non binary girl?

I've asked DD this and she's positive they are a biological boy.

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TheaBrandt · 18/01/2023 17:57

A local family are trying to get their son into my dds girls state school. The fearsome headmistress is having none of it.

ItsHitTheFanNow · 18/01/2023 17:58

MrsOvertonsWindow · 18/01/2023 17:55

The Girls Day Schools Trust state clearly that:
The GDST is committed to single-sex education for girls. Admissions to GDST schools are based on the prospective student’s legal sex as recorded on their birth certificate.

Evidently this school has changed their admissions policy and is now admitting boys (who think that they are not a boy or girl?) And presumably this child will be sharing showers, changing rooms, dormitories etc with girls?

They are in a different year to DD so I don't know about changing rooms etc. They do use the "girls'" toilets though.

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ArabellaScott · 18/01/2023 17:59

ItsHitTheFanNow · 18/01/2023 17:25

Thank you. DD thinks all the cubicles are fully enclosed but the sinks are outside the cubicles. Does that make a difference?

Yes. For Building regs and according to school guidance, the whole toilet - including sink - needs to be enclosed when its mixed sex provision.

ItsHitTheFanNow · 18/01/2023 18:00

Thank you @ArabellaScott. Do you have a link for this?

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woohooho · 18/01/2023 18:01

MrsOvertonsWindow · 18/01/2023 17:55

The Girls Day Schools Trust state clearly that:
The GDST is committed to single-sex education for girls. Admissions to GDST schools are based on the prospective student’s legal sex as recorded on their birth certificate.

Evidently this school has changed their admissions policy and is now admitting boys (who think that they are not a boy or girl?) And presumably this child will be sharing showers, changing rooms, dormitories etc with girls?

Is the school OP is talking about a GDST school though?

Lilgamesh2 · 18/01/2023 18:02

God I would be so cross if I paid money specifically to send my kid to a single sex school only for them to decide it's co-Ed and not tell me.

How does it work with private schools - is there a contract that they have to adhere to? Can they change the rules on you like this?! It's a clear cut case of miss selling imo but I don't know the law.

ItsHitTheFanNow · 18/01/2023 18:03

I've just checked and it's not a GDST school.

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findmybalance · 18/01/2023 18:04

aModernClassic · 18/01/2023 17:22

My thoughts exactly. My DD goes to a girls school and I won't tolerate any biological boy joining. There are usually plenty of coed schools to attend. Why a girls school?

You personally cannot tolerate or ban a pupil entering a school.

findmybalance · 18/01/2023 18:05

Clymene · 18/01/2023 17:52

The school is no longer single sex as it's admitted a boy.

Honestly I'd go to the press

Theyre not a boy. Theyre non binary.

I dont understand why on earth this pupil wouldnt go to a mixed school though

titchy · 18/01/2023 18:06

You should still write to the head, copying in the Governors, asking for clarity if they have now become mixed-sex given that a biological male has joined and ask when they consulted on this because you must have missed it.

arethereanyleftatall · 18/01/2023 18:06

TheaBrandt · 18/01/2023 17:57

A local family are trying to get their son into my dds girls state school. The fearsome headmistress is having none of it.

Good for her

MrsOvertonsWindow · 18/01/2023 18:07

findmybalance · 18/01/2023 18:05

Theyre not a boy. Theyre non binary.

I dont understand why on earth this pupil wouldnt go to a mixed school though

Were they born non binary?

arethereanyleftatall · 18/01/2023 18:07

@findmybalance
They are a boy.